|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,900
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,900 |
No their isn't, that is for sure. All we can hope for is that they do themselves in and hopefully in a timely fashion without any collateral damage.
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,900
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,900 |
I agree with most of you that the alleged "war on drugs" is a horsechit plan at best. But what is the alternative. Legalize it? Don't think so. Decriminalize it, sounds nice and fuzzy until it's your kid smoking pot and then you are faced with the bullchit excuse of "it's OK it's not ILLEGAL." Is that what happens when your kids drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes? Wouldn't know, mine does neither. And I have earned exactly zip from the war on drugs. All my pay comes from a budget not funded by dope war money Some construction zone enforcement and drunk driving enforcement money but no dope money. I do that on straight time.
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
I have given this a lot of thought.
This crap is a poison with no useful purpose.
Should we allow a deadly poison to be sold with the expression purpose of human consummation?
I say no.
Snake You sound a lot like the gun grabbers. "A handgun has no useful purpose other than to kill people. Should we allow deadly weapons to be sold with the express purpose of killing people? I say no." When your first impulse is to say, "Should we allow..." you're already on the side of tyranny and against the side of liberty. If you're interested in liberty, then that first impulse would be to say, "What just power has the government to..." For example, "What just power has the government to control what individuals put into their own bodies?" And yes, I know handguns have useful purposes other than killing people. So do most drugs, even illegal ones. But you know about the positive uses of guns, and you don't know--or perhaps don't care to know--about the positive uses of narcotics; so you're acting from emotion instead of information...which is why I compared you to the gun grabbers, since that's precisely what they do as well. All that is beside the real point, though. Even if you were to identify a drug that truly had absolutely no possible positive purpose, "Should we allow..." would still be the response of tyranny.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009 |
Even if you were to identify a drug that truly had absolutely no possible positive purpose, "Should we allow..." would still be the response of tyranny. Should we allow murder? Should we allow rape? Should we allow canabilism? Should we allow incest? Should we allow pedophilia? Should we allow slavery? I'm afraid that isn't tyranny but necessary decisions by a civilized society. Anything else is anarchy and we both know how that works out.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Full Bore Loonie Chit there, Se�or.
Magnum Energy Level, too.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
New Member
|
New Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7 |
I think some drugs shouldn't be illegal,like pot I've personally known folks who like a bit of green for fun and are quite harmless.
Stuff like bath salts,LSD,crack et cetera while not illegal should be monitored more carefully and treated as a medical condition and not a crime,people CAN and DO go crazy while on some of those and although I just don't see any use in saying anything to anybody about anyone who uses it I do A not hang around them,and B make sure if they are around I have my back to a wall and easy access to my pistol!
As far the joke that is the "drug war" well....anybody still remember prohibition? worked real well didn't it?
What part of "Phn'glui mlgw'nafh Cthulhu ry'leh wagn'nagi ftaghn" don't you understand?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,015
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,015 |
Even if you were to identify a drug that truly had absolutely no possible positive purpose, "Should we allow..." would still be the response of tyranny. Should we allow murder? Should we allow rape? Should we allow canabilism? Should we allow incest? Should we allow pedophilia? Should we allow slavery? I'm afraid that isn't tyranny but necessary decisions by a civilized society. Anything else is anarchy and we both know how that works out. The difference is these actions inherently violate the rights of others. Use of drugs is just destruction of self. Obviously it often ends up affecting others but at its base, is not a crime against others.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Even if you were to identify a drug that truly had absolutely no possible positive purpose, "Should we allow..." would still be the response of tyranny. Should we allow murder? Should we allow rape? Should we allow canabilism? Should we allow incest? Should we allow pedophilia? Should we allow slavery? I'm afraid that isn't tyranny but necessary decisions by a civilized society. "Should we allow...?" is a tyrannical question. Let's try mine: Does the government have the just power to prohibit murder? Yes, because it involves an aggressor violating the rights of a victim. Does the government have the just power to prohibit rape? Yes, because it involves an aggressor violating the rights of a victim. Does the government have the just power to prohibit cannibalism? Well, what are we talking about here? Is cannibalism a person eating a human corpse that he justly owns? If so, there's no aggression or violation of rights involved, so it cannot be justly prohibited. Did the cannibal murder the person whose body he's eating? Then the murder is actionable. Did the person die of natural causes, but the cannibal stole his corpse to eat? Then the theft is actionable. But the government does not have any place in an individual's decision about what to put into his own body. Does the government have the just power to prohibit incest? Yes, because it involves an aggressor violating the rights of a victim. Does the government have the just power to prohibit pedophilia? Well, what do you mean by pedophilia? Do you mean child molestation? Then yes, because it involves an aggressor violating the rights of a victim. Do you mean someone who, while perversely sexually attracted to children, never acts on that attraction? Then no, because the government does not have any place in an individual's decision about what he thinks. Does the government have the just power to prohibit slavery? Yes, because it involves an aggressor violating the rights of a victim. Specifically, it involves an aggressor abridging the liberties of a victim in precisely the same way that a government abridges the liberties of its subjects when it prohibits behaviors that involve no aggressor and no victim, but only consensus. Do you see how "Should we allow...?" appeals only to emotion and has no objective limits, while "Does the government have the just power to...?" leads to more sober, rational analysis of the situation? Anything else is anarchy and we both know how that works out. You ain't from around here, are you?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13 |
We're all inundated with adds on TV promoting the benefits of prescription drugs but God forbid cigarettes or hard alcohol be advertised.
Yep, big pharma gets a pass on drug pushing, and that's all it is. They're not happy unless everybody is on two or three life-long chronic meds.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13 |
Even if you were to identify a drug that truly had absolutely no possible positive purpose, "Should we allow..." would still be the response of tyranny. Should we allow murder? Should we allow rape? Should we allow canabilism? Should we allow incest? Should we allow pedophilia? Should we allow slavery? I'm afraid that isn't tyranny but necessary decisions by a civilized society. Anything else is anarchy and we both know how that works out. All of those have unwilling victims. Drug use doesn't. Barak was referring to voluntary conduct only.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009 |
Ah, the old victimless crime falsehood.
You ever see the mother find her dead OD'ed son in the morning?
How about mothers pimping out their 13yr old daughter for BJs to support a dope habit?
How about someone who blew their brains out because the couldn't stand the hold drugs had on them?
Legalizing an evil will never make our society better. Do you really believe that legalizing dope will make America a better place? Those who complain about the money spent due to illegalization will be the first to demanding tax monies spent to support these people and their habits due to this evil "disease."
You guys are trying to make a warped utopia just as those who try to create laws to restrict all behaviors, just another end of the continuium, thats all. The world you would create would be as miserable as the "tyranny" you despise.
Did society or govt. decide that drugs should be illegal?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Ah, the old victimless crime falsehood.
You ever see the mother find her dead OD'ed son in the morning?
How about mothers pimping out their 13yr old daughter for BJs to support a dope habit?
How about someone who blew their brains out because the couldn't stand the hold drugs had on them?
Legalizing an evil will never make our society better. Do you really believe that legalizing dope will make America a better place? Those who complain about the money spent due to illegalization will be the first to demanding tax monies spent to support these people and their habits due to this evil "disease."
You guys are trying to make a warped utopia just as those who try to create laws to restrict all behaviors, just another end of the continuium, thats all. The world you would create would be as miserable as the "tyranny" you despise.
Did society or govt. decide that drugs should be illegal?
Government er the State.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13 |
Ah, the old victimless crime falsehood.
You ever see the mother find her dead OD'ed son in the morning? That's ridiculous. You could say the same for extreme sports, and the mother being upset that her son was killed when he attempted snowboarding off a really radical mountain side. Should we outlaw extreme sports, too? The mother of the dead extreme snowboarder is not a victim of snowboarding, however. Neither is the mother of a dead drug addict a victim of the drugs.
How about mothers pimping out their 13yr old daughter for BJs to support a dope habit?
If the mom was an alcoholic, wouldn't that be just as tragic and criminal? The only difference is that alcohol highs are cheaper, because alcohol isn't illegal, and thus doesn't provide nearly the motive for criminal activity to support the habit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Ah, the old victimless crime falsehood.
You ever see the mother find her dead OD'ed son in the morning? The_Real_Hawkeye's analogy is much better than mine on this one. How about mothers pimping out their 13yr old daughter for BJs to support a dope habit? If pimping out minors is already a crime (with a victim), why do you need for the dope to be illegal? How about someone who blew their brains out because the couldn't stand the hold drugs had on them? First, I suspect such people are rare. I'm friends with a number of people who are drug addicts--some of whom have died of their addiction--and I've never known one to blow his or her brains out. Much easier just to get high again; then there's no bothering about the hold drugs have on them. Secondly, people commit suicide because of screwed-up love affairs, because they're ugly and rejected by society, because they're crippled, because they're suddenly poor--for all kinds of reasons. Are you going to outlaw love or being ugly or poverty? It's not a convincing argument. Legalizing an evil will never make our society better. What has made our society so bad is the tyranny of government mandating and prohibiting all sorts of things it never had any business sticking its nose into in the first place. More mandates and prohibitions will only make it worse. Remove all the regulations and people will find ways to live fulfilling, productive lives--even if it's not the ways you would have chosen for them. Do you really believe that legalizing dope will make America a better place? Absolutely. Abolish all drug laws, all legal tender laws, all capital gains taxes, and watch the whole thing take off like a rocket, sez I. Those who complain about the money spent due to illegalization will be the first to demanding tax monies spent to support these people and their habits due to this evil "disease." You're thinking of liberals. The vast majority of the people on this thread--including me--are emphatically not liberals. It turns out that "not conservative implies liberal" is not nearly as helpful an oversimplification as Rush and Sean think it is. You guys are trying to make a warped utopia just as those who try to create laws to restrict all behaviors, just another end of the continuium, thats all. The world you would create would be as miserable as the "tyranny" you despise. Never fear: in a free society, people like you would be free to be ruled as brutally as you liked. If that was enough to float your boat, you'd probably be happy. Of course, if you needed to rule others against their will to be happy, it wouldn't be much fun for you, no.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009 |
Matter of degree, failure to perceive distinctions. Yes it could be said about everything including the dangers of waking up of a morning and getting out of bed.
For that matter do away with all laws and let's just all go back to man in a state of nature and Hume's every man against every man because that is the ultimate liberty of the utopia you seek. Break out the bong, laugh and giggle until someone brains us with a rock and takes our stash.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Here are a couple of interesting links from twenty years ago: Rockwell's Thirty-Day PlanRockwell's Next Thirty Days
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Matter of degree, failure to perceive distinctions. Amigo, you're the one around here who's failing to perceive the distinction between mala prohibita and mala in se. And that distinction isn't even a matter of degree. Not sure I'd bring up that argument if I were you.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,009 |
Never fear: in a free society, people like you would be free to be ruled as brutally as you liked. If that was enough to float your boat, you'd probably be happy. Of course, if you needed to rule others against their will to be happy, it wouldn't be much fun for you, no. Touche No need to control but despise drugs and what they do. Plus I have less faith in the thin veneer of civilization than you evidently.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13 |
Matter of degree, failure to perceive distinctions. Yes it could be said about everything including the dangers of waking up of a morning and getting out of bed.
For that matter do away with all laws and let's just all go back to man in a state of nature and Hume's every man against every man because that is the ultimate liberty of the utopia you seek. Break out the bong, laugh and giggle until someone brains us with a rock and takes our stash. Growing up I had opportunities aplenty to try a joint. Never occurred to me to do so. I don't like the idea of taking an aspirin when I have a headache.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,689 Likes: 13 |
|
|
|
|
583 members (12344mag, 1936M71, 1Longbow, 06hunter59, 160user, 007FJ, 63 invisible),
2,130
guests, and
1,258
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,046
Posts18,482,225
Members73,959
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|