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Originally Posted by George_in_SD
I have done some reading about the 375 ruger. Would do the job I imagine!

I have shot a few rugers, and while nice, I prefer an older rem 700. Though recently some pre64 winnys have been calling. Half the fun of a new toy is the speculation in its purchase grin

Just can't seem to find the perfect solution for me.
The 375 looks very promising and effective, but I can't pair it down to 6-7# and shoot it comfortably (Based on what others here have mentioned).
I have been looking at a Remington 350 magnum. Seems nifty
Have also been looking at a Rem 7mmRM but its not too far off from my current rifle.
Need to take some more time reading I suppose. Getting out and shooting some couldn't hurt either.


Yeah, seems that you're in a conundrum of sorts, but I'm sure you'll figure it out. It's not like you're heading out on that bear hunt in the next twelve weeks. Eventually you'll land on an idea that suits your need and your sensitivity. In the end, you're just going to need to go for it and take a leap of faith.

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Originally Posted by George_in_SD
To preface, I did thoroughly use the search function. Which led me down many rabbit-holes of research about larger calibers to use for brown/grizzly bears in Alaska. However not all of my questions have been answered.

I am looking into getting a rifle in the late future (12-16 months). Primarily to be used for large bears in AK. I currently have and love a rem700 in 7mm-08 (Mc Millan, leupold 3.5-9,Douglas barrel, cerakoted) which will do about anything I need. Such as deer, elk, moose, sheep, goat,and black bears. Though I don't feel it has enough oomph for the large species.

My research led me into looking at several different calibers, 35 Remington (Rem Mohawk), 350 Remington Magnum (Rem Mohawk), 300 Win mag, .338 Win Mag, .338-06, 35 Whelen, 375 H&H, and a few others. While these are all to me, suitable choices I have a few caveats which make the decision a bit more difficult.
Firstly I am a smaller framed individual, (5'10 and 150 pounds on a good day) though I am in good physical shape having the vigor of youth, recoil is something I need to be conscious of. I would much rather have a rifle I am comfortable and confident with, rather than a flinch inducing cannon. While at the same time not having to trade off weight for reduced recoil. Hopefully keeping the weight around 7.5# if realistic. Another restriction is that I would prefer not to have a muzzle-break, as I very much enjoy my hearing and ear-plugs in the field are just not realistic to me.
In addition, I do not reload so I am limited somewhat there as well. Though my father does heavily, and I'm sure with the proper motivation (New dies and lapua brass)he would be happy to load up a few piles of ammo.

Also I know that some larger calibers, while having large projectiles, compromise power for distance. I would like to see an acceptable range for animals out to 350-400 yards.

Any recommendations for an appropriate tool for the job?
I would likely get a mcmillan stock for it, get it coated, and drop a leupy or zeiss on it. My preference is for older remington 700. Though a winchester is not out of the question; and I have heard good things about the Kimber 84m here on the forum.


Thank you for the advice!
.............Tons of choices here from cartridges to rifle choices.

The problem is, is that most of them will work fine making things more confusing and tedious with your selection process.

Some years back, I owned and used an older M/70 375 H&H on a successful big bear hunt, which with only a light 4x fixed scope weighed about 11.5-12 lbs. Damn thing was a pig to carry and to handle as well. Sold it. Once and maybe a few times as well, people including me have purchased on emotion rather than using some common sense and thinking ahead.

Before considering which cartridge, I suggest you go out to every local gun dealer or gun show that might be in your area and start handling some rifles. If recoil is a consideration while at the same time you`re leaning towards a 375, a minimum rifle weight before scope of about 8 to 8.5 lbs lbs would be a good and logical choice.

Stock choice boils down to preference. For harsher weather I personally prefer the non-woodys myself and a rough it type of rifle which doesn`t need any coddling or babying. Some prefer the more lavish woodys.

At 6'3" 235 lbs my handy 20" tubed 375 Ruger Alaskan is perfect for me. Bought in back in `08 for future bison, moose and some big bear use when I get the time to go. There is a huge difference in every way for the better between my Alaskan vs my former woody 375 H&H.

Go find the rifle that is best for you in terms of rifle weight, OAL, handling, carrying, looks, stock preference and design, and then usually the cartridge and recoil preferences will follow.




28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Ima dumbazz, dont even live in Alaska, and sure aint a Bear Guide.

But I came across a very cool 416 Taylor on a VZ-24 Mauser action, it wears 1/4 rib express sights, set it in a BC syn stock with alum. chassis, has a 1.5-5 Leupold in a set of 8-40 drilled Talley QD's.

The 400 gn Hornady RN Interlock bullets backed down to very reasonable 2250 fps is a very surprisingly manageable round to handle, and I would think it should be a perfect G Bear rifle up close or out to maybe a 100 yards or so.

Just one wannabe's opinion. smile

Gunner

Got two pards that have Taylors. 'Fire-member Beerhuntr has one that I shot (once). I still have that bruise from 2 years ago. wink

Another pard built one on a lefty Savage action sourced from RWE. Killed a brownie on Kodiak last fall with it. The bear didn't like it one bit.


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Of course not Dom.

I argue, that by getting used to discussing inconsequential increments we becoming unaquainted with the concept of "boxing" in cartridges and use types.

Problem with this is overlap at the fringes and also inconsequential increments right at said border.

But,

if we do away with any borders you get above chain of "reasoning":

Do it step by step -

Q: .375 H&H and 9,3x62 ??
A: same same

Q: 9,3x62 and .35 Whelen??
A: same same

Q: .35 Whelen and .338-06 ??
A: same same

Q: .338-06 and .30-06 ??
A: same same

Q:.30-06 and .270 Win. ??
A: same same

...

I bet, were one to put in the time, one would find an example thread, probably many for each of the above; and hence my Question:

Where is the divide?

Is it just mental or is the .375 H&H really not worth anything more than the .270 Win in any hunting situation?


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I'm thinking about the same. The right option will eventually jump out at me. I'd rather have a rifle that I loved, and did everything I wanted as opposed to something that fell a little short.

Maybe building an ultra-light 280 or 7mmRM would be closer up my alley.

Out of curiosity has anyone owned/shot a remington 700 classic in 350 Mag?


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Here in the Twin Cities area there are several 1000+ lbs Kodiak Bears on display in sporting goods stores. Every one of them was taken with a 375H&H.

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Was joking Carl, only joking...

To me, one must use a rifle and ammo he can manage well, without going borderline, then use the right bullet for the job (penetration, tissue destruction), then more important learn about the anatomy if it's the first time he hunt that game, be it a bear , a buff, a moose, an elk...and then train to shoot from field positions and play the bolt shouldered the faster he can to double or even triple in case of, instead of bragging of half moa or BC of his bullets.

I saw to many people looking at their shot because they want to get one shot kill confused
Saw that on very big water buff bull in Australia, not a good idea.. crazy

Never be over gunned if you can't manage the tool but never be under gunned, because you think it's good to follow new trend to use the smaller caliber you can. This don't prove your better or smarter.

But i'm sure you understand what i mean till we met shortly and spoke together.
Not enough money for grizzly in Alaska, but next year my Mozambique buffalos gun will be N�1 450-400. I know it will do the job and me too. Hope to get pictures....

Dom



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George_in_SD, if I may say so you, are (way) over-analyzing and over-thinking this issue. As has been stated any cartridge from the 30/06 to the 375s will fill the bill. (and as noted some below the '06 can and have done it, and probably will again).

The .350 Rem Mag is a very nice cartridge too; it will do well for bear with 30/06 level recoil or a touch more depending on the rifle, which really, is probably the first and last part of the equation. Get one you like, at the weight you like, and practice to 200 yds from every field position.

I like a bigger cartridge for big animals and would go to one of the 375s myself, and have. They are robust but not vicious kickers like some of the smaller, medium bores can be -- the .338s, big .30's, etc.

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George, I am also a III if I may say so.

I am admittedly over-thinking this, as I do most major purchases.

I would jump on a 350 Rem Mag, but am slightly concerned about the availability of ammunition. Especially given that I do not reload (Yet!).
For me it's either 350Rem Mag, 375 H&H, or a lightweight (7mmRM, 280, or 30-06)
I see the merit of going to a larger caliber most definitely. Though I do not want a heavy-heavy rifle, as I would use it in the future on longer back-packing/hiking hunts. Finding the happy medium seems difficult to me.
If a 350 RemMag has lower recoil than a 375 (Which I know to be a slow-push, as opposed to fast-hit) than it may be the golden ticket. If it can be slimmed down weight wise, and still be manageable. Given ammo is reasonably available.

Thoughts?

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Hunting brown bears is my favorite pasttime. I've killed several and helped others kill many more. Given your parameters--factory ammo and recoil conscious--buy a SS 30/06 and go hunting. Anything else is simply chest thumping.....


Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Suck bullets simply suck.

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Originally Posted by 406_SBC
...--buy a SS 30/06 and go hunting.

I've said it before and will make the same offer again.

I'll bet a cold Pepsi wink more brown bears have been killed by the '06 than by the next two most popular calibers combined.


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I don't hunt bear, and I'm not a guide, but that Ruger Compact rifle in 338 or 375 Ruger Compact Magnum sure looks like it would make a good bear rifle. Compact, rifle sights, decent cartridges, and from what I've seen and heard the Ruger would be adequately dependable. As far as factory produced rifles it looks like what in my mind's eye a bear rifle ought to look like.

You might go handle one and look at some reviews of the cartridges a little bit. It ain't gonna hurt anything.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by 406_SBC
...--buy a SS 30/06 and go hunting.

I've said it before and will make the same offer again.

I'll bet a cold Pepsi wink more brown bears have been killed by the '06 than by the next two most popular calibers combined.
..........You`re probably 100% right. But regardless, personal preferences do vary with not all siding towards using a 30-06 as a first preference for big bears.

For a big brownie hunt, either my 375 Ruger Alaskan or 338-378 Bee would get first considerations before my 300 WSM compact, which is really a 24" to 26" tubed 30-06 AI.





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Originally Posted by George_in_SD
George, I am also a III if I may say so.

I am admittedly over-thinking this, as I do most major purchases.

I would jump on a 350 Rem Mag, but am slightly concerned about the availability of ammunition. Especially given that I do not reload (Yet!).
For me it's either 350Rem Mag, 375 H&H, or a lightweight (7mmRM, 280, or 30-06)
I see the merit of going to a larger caliber most definitely. Though I do not want a heavy-heavy rifle, as I would use it in the future on longer back-packing/hiking hunts. Finding the happy medium seems difficult to me.
If a 350 RemMag has lower recoil than a 375 (Which I know to be a slow-push, as opposed to fast-hit) than it may be the golden ticket. If it can be slimmed down weight wise, and still be manageable. Given ammo is reasonably available.

Thoughts?


I'm the 3rd.. and last - two daughters! grin

If you are not going to hand load and would like a light rifle I would recommend the 30/06; there are a ton of factory loads and it can be had in some light rifles and if you master it, you would not need more on this continent.

I reserve the right to say you are over-thinking it because I should know. smile cry

edited to add, I noticed your caveat about reloading. If you decide to do so, while some may think the 350 RM an odd choice, it is a solid 300 yard cartridge (and more, depending on you); there are good 358 bullets available with recoil not discernibly above the '06, at least for me. So you could built it light too. I have a beautiful 350, it's only fault being about a pound and a half heavier than I'd prefer. A 225-gr TSX at 2700-2800 fps (longer box) is pretty potent.

Welcome to the fire neighbor!

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Originally Posted by DELGUE
I don't hunt bear, and I'm not a guide, but that Ruger Compact rifle in 338 or 375 Ruger Compact Magnum sure looks like it would make a good bear rifle. Compact, rifle sights, decent cartridges, and from what I've seen and heard the Ruger would be adequately dependable. As far as factory produced rifles it looks like what in my mind's eye a bear rifle ought to look like.

You might go handle one and look at some reviews of the cartridges a little bit. It ain't gonna hurt anything.


+1 on the .338 RCM. I can attest to its effectiveness on big black bears, at least, and it's quick-handling in thick cover.


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Agreed.

Basically what it all boils down to, is simply choosing a caliber and manufacturer and then just go bear hunting. It's not rocket science, nor brain surgery.

The reality is that no one is getting any younger and the cost of hunts increases exponentially each year.

So, basically speaking, pick a gun manufacturer and choose any number of adequate calibers and then, go kill a bear.

Pretty simple, really.

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I have been guiding and killing big bears now for over thirty years. Re-read what I wrote a couple pages back and that everyone has been ignoring.


Originally Posted by 458Win
Like any other hunting, it's the bullet that does all the killing - and where the shooter places it that determines how quickly the animal dies.
It is amazing how very little all the other stuff - like bullet diameter and velocity - changes any of the first two.
And how much you paid for you scope, or who built your rifle, or how well you once shot off the bench, doesn't matter a bit.


If you think you need the biggest and most powerful rifle, that is fine, If you put the bullet in the correct spot it will kill bears just fine. But so will a 270, 7mm, 300, 308, 338, 35 or 375.

When I am asked what I recommend I tell my clients that if they use a premium bullet, anything they can shoot well will work.
If pressed for "the best" I recommend either the .338 Win or the 375 ( Ruger or H&H, it doesn't matter)

The bear that wore this hide took a single hit from a 300 Win and didn't travel over 50 feet. That is a 12 foot ladder it's hanging on

[Linked Image]


And when I am guiding, and likely to have to wrinkle a wounded bear out of the pucker brush and keep them out of my lap, I like my 458 Win. I really can't say that it kills them any faster than my 30-06, but it certainly puts them down quicker, which then gives me a chance to get another shot in them as they are getting back up.

[Linked Image]


Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master Guide,
Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor
FAA Master pilot
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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I suspect most "heard" you, Phil.

I'm just thinking that redundancy of point several times over is not gonna make a difference to some.
Move on. Don't need any bonofides explained, don't need tellin' over and over again. Some (alas) will never get it.
The good news is that some will be blissfully happy not getting it...makes the world go around, thinks I.


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Phil, your latest bear gun, the light weight M-70 in 9.3x62 sounds really good. Lots of power, 5 down, one up and in a D'Arcy Legend stock. It is obvious that gun reflects many years of packing rifles and killing big bears.

As the latest product in the evolution of your thinking and experience, one would assume this rifle represents the "perfect" packing rifle for big bears.

How close am I?

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Originally Posted by cmg
I bet, were one to put in the time, one would find a million example threads, probably more for each of the above...


Carl,
Fixed it for you wink

An infomercial aired some years back that had the tag-line: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste..."
Seems it would apply to your "hypothetical" on taking the time, yes? smile

best,
Mark


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*** my Grandaughters

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