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I am buying another scope, and this time the choice is between the S&B Klassik 3-12x42 and the Leica ER 3.5-14x42
Again, I cannot look at the scopes side by side to compare them as nobody anywhere near me has either.
The S&B is a known - there will be no question about the quality. What about the Leica? It is relatively new to the market. The price is not a factor - the S&B is $50 more.
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Campfire Kahuna
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If you're asking about optical quality, I have tested both scopes on my night-time optical chart and both rated 8, the highest any scopes have tested.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Thanks MD - any news on the durability of the Leica?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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No negative reports so far that I've heard. I tested the one sample I've tried on my scope killer, a light .338 Winchester Magnum. It did fine for a couple boxes of ammo, which usually shows up any flaws.
As a matter of fact that .338 (nicknamed Mr. Miserable) broke a supposedly heavy-duty tactical scope within one box of ammo a week or two ago. Over the years it's probably broken at least a dozen scopes within two boxes of ammo.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I've had both. I know only own S&Bs. But only because Leica has been in and out of the scope category in recent years, and if they do it again, the resale value of Leica might falter. And that I realize is sho-nuff, pure-dee speculation. If a few years from know Leica has proven to be committed to the scope category, I'll almost certainly buy Leica scopes and look forward to their quality.
As MD said, optically...take your pick. Either glass will do all that any scope on the market will do, and do it in spades.
Teach every child you meet the importance of forgiveness. It's our only hope of surviving their wrath once they realize just how badly we've screwed things up for them.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Most of my scopes are S&B's but have owed several Leica's. Optically the Leica is equal to the S&B but I have never kept one long enough to find out how durable they are. Believe Mule Deer has the skinny on that above.
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I have two Leica scopes - one on a 7mm SAUM and one on a .375 H&H. The one on my .375 H&H has absorbed around 400 rounds of 300 gr. full house loads with no issues or movement at all.
Candidly, I'm absolutely sold on the Leica scopes. They are seriously good glass.
Hunt Africa while you can
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I looked at a Leica for my latest rifle, but could find no good information about accurate calibration and repeatability of their turrets. I chose the NF 2.5-10, but only because S&B didn't have what I wanted with MOA turrets. Love my PMII, but too big for a light weight sporting rifle.
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Well, I was going to buy the S&B but, fortunately, I checked the specs with respect to ring spacing and it is too short for my rifle (Steyr-Mannlicher). So I am ordering the Leica ER 3.5-14x42 with both elevation and windage turrets.
I trust JB when he says it is a good scope and good in low light. I'll post a write up on it after it arrives.
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who ya buying from? looks like Cabela's having a big sale on Leica.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I am buying another scope, and this time the choice is between the S&B Klassik 3-12x42 and the Leica ER 3.5-14x42
Again, I cannot look at the scopes side by side to compare them as nobody anywhere near me has either.
The S&B is a known - there will be no question about the quality. What about the Leica? It is relatively new to the market. The price is not a factor - the S&B is $50 more. For $50.00, Hell, even $250.00, why trifle that amount a money on a proven leader in the industry against a newcomer with uncertain rifle scope pedigree? Schmidt and Bender easily by 3 lengths...
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Campfire Tracker
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I have had 2 Leicas in 3.5-14x42. I still own one with the target turret on it. Best glass I've owned and I've had or have swaro, S&B, Zeiss, NF, Kahles, Leupy, etc. There are really nice. Mines on a .280AI so not a hard kicker but it is doing well.
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Schrapnel - There aren't many options for the older model Steyr-Mannlicher. The original Steyr mounts or EAW. Both of those will be $400-$500. Plus I don't think they make extended rings. My Leupold is about 5.4" and it barely fits. The 3-12x50 Klassik is 5.04" so it is not even close. The 42mm would be a tight fit but with the eye relief it would be too far forward for me (as is the Leupold).
However, if anyone has ideas I am all ears, as I haven't placed the order yet.
The rifle is a pre-SBS Steyr-Mannlicher Luxus S.
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who ya buying from? looks like Cabela's having a big sale on Leica.
I am in Canada; the dealer is Wolverine Supplies in Manitoba. I am waiting for the price quote with the elevation/windage turrets, but w/o those it is $1405. The S&B 3-12x50 Klassik is an amazing deal there (imo) at $1499. The 42mm obj one is $1450.
Last edited by Arac; 08/20/12.
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Campfire Ranger
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Schrapnel - There aren't many options for the older model Steyr-Mannlicher. The original Steyr mounts or EAW. Both of those will be $400-$500. Plus I don't think they make extended rings. My Leupold is about 5.4" and it barely fits. The 3-12x50 Klassik is 5.04" so it is not even close. The 42mm would be a tight fit but with the eye relief it would be too far forward for me (as is the Leupold).
However, if anyone has ideas I am all ears, as I haven't placed the order yet.
The rifle is a pre-SBS Steyr-Mannlicher Luxus S. If the S&B won't fit, it really doesn't matter. You obviously need to have a scope that fits. I haven't tried the new Leica scopes, but the originals in the wooden box a few years back, were less than impressive. I would still look at Swarovski, and the Z-3 and Z-5 should work. The Z-6 may be too much, but a 30 mm tube may provide different mounting opportunities.
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Schrapnel - I just emailed NECG to see if they have a solution. Thanks, I thought my mind was made up!
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Campfire Tracker
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The old scopes were not nearly as nice as the new ones. They were made by Leupold and branded Leica.
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Campfire Ranger
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Leica-polds.
The newer ones I've seen have nothing in common with the older ones. Excellent glass, but I can't vouch for the tracking as I was t allowed to twist knobs.
JM
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I expect the Leica will be top quality glass, it would not be a Leica product if it is not... but without totally accurate and repeatable tracking it's just another expensive aluminum tube with high dollar glass. I was very impressed with the value of my Zeiss Conquests and would use one of those again, at a fraction of the cost, if the Leica doesn't have turret quality to match NF and S&B.
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About the tracking, John Barsness wrote: When the adjustments were cranked around a 5� square, the shots at the corners landed inside of �� of where they should have. (The adjustments had previously worked perfectly back in my shop, during a test on a collimator�s grid, but adjustments that work indoors without shots being fired don�t always work so well outdoors on a 25-degree day, on a rifle like Mr. Miserable.) The turrets could easily be adjusted in the field for longer-range shooting. They�re very easily felt, and marked with appropriate hashmarks; there�s also a hex-head set-screw that can be loosened for re-setting the dial to zero.
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