Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Model 70 accuracy concerns.

I recently decided that I want to purchase a .270WSM. I would like to get one in a M70. It would be my first M70. I have owned lots of Remington M700 and I swear by them, a Steyr that is VERY accurate (puts most any load in less than 1/2" at 100 yards, and puts these new 160 Accubonds nearly in one hole) a Mauser 98, and a Ruger M77.

I learned most all I know from my father who I consider to have a great wealth of rifle and realoding knowledge. He was a Jack O'Connor fan, and dearly loves his M70's, though he complains they are very hard to get to shoot accurately. Atleast thats been the story with the 6 or 8 he owns now, and the other dozen or so he's gotten rid of due to the fact they wouldnt shoot well enough to be confident they'd get the job done in the woods, very hard to get to shoot accurately.

Anybody want to relate similar experiences, or tell me different? Or a way to solve. I have seen my father sink lots of time, and money having them worked on, glass bedded, accurized, etc, and be very frustrated.

Man am i gonna get flamed here...Me a ruger/rem sort of guy. Don't like winnies cause of what you have already said. I drive chevy's too cause a ford needs fixin' way too often.

Me, a DIEHARD Rem700 man. I own a Ruger M77 in .243, but got it in 1984 when you could still work in the trigger. Fine accuarate rifle. Wont buy another though. LOVE my Steyr 7mmRM Tack driver! Not picky about bullets or powders. Worst load ever shot just a tad over inch and a quarter. Routinely shoots under 1/2 inch.

Man, the history of the M70! But that damned controled round feed is what I deem to be the culprit. I refer to the CRF as a great solution to a non-existant problem. The bullet sits in the chamber with pressure on it from the CRF...not good IMO for accuracy. I am sure there are some that shoot well, or someone can make them shoot well and I would love to own one.

Only one i ever personally saw shoot well, can't say why and not gonna argue my position. It was last years run of M70 in a 300wsm. Shoots to my liking near and far. I don't own it but a friend does. He's a senible southern boy. Didn't do anything to it other than reload some A max's. Funny thing is he drives Chevy's, oh well....

"The bullet sits in the chamber with pressure on it from the CRF..."

Would you like to rephrase that?

The Winchesters CRF doesn't have a thing to do with the cartridge once it's inside the chamber. The Remington, on the other hand, does push on the cartridge via the ejector plunger.

In either case, the barrel, bedding and muzzle crown has more to do with accuracy than what brand or type of action.

I've got a bunch of current production Model 70's, and have been favorably impressed with all of them. The barrels have been universally good, as have the triggers. Actions are smooth, and all feed well.

I'd not be afraid of getting a 70 to shoot. It'll need bedding and probably a new crown, just like a Remington would, to reach it's full potential though.

The 270WSM is a pretty user friendly cartridge to get shooting. You'll be in good shape with a new Model 70.

When I was looking to build an extremely accurate long range gun, I called a bunch of national reputation gunsmiths for their advice and quotes. To a man, they said I would get a more accurate gun if I started with a Remington than a Model 70. The late Harold Broughton, who mentored Kenny Jarrett, said that if he did everything right, he might get a .50 MOA Remington. If he did everything just as well on the Winchester, he might expect .75 MOA.

So my accuracy guns are based on Remingtons, but my carry it around the world through thick and thin gun is a Model 70 because I think it is a better hunting design.

I have or have had a dozen Remingtons and a coupe of dozen Winchester Model 70's. A model 70 is as or is more likely to shoot well out of the box than a Remington 700. A lot of gunsmiths love the 700's because they are easier to work on. They are round and easier to chuck up in a lathe and don't require an extractor cut. Winchester need a more experienced gunsmith to bring out their full potential. Remington's are also beloved by gunsmiths because the NEED work to shoot well and that keeps the young gunsmith in business.
A custom M-70 by a good smith will shoot every bit as well as a Remington 700 in a Hunting rifle, again I've shot dozens of custom 70's and have a firm experience base for my opinion. People that say they won't shoot don't know what they are talking about.
For a Benchrest style target gun a 700 is easier to sleeve and is slightly stiffer than a 700 but until you are getting in 1/4 minute or better guns there isn't a realistic accuracy difference in 70/700's.
As far as handling, crf, safety and trigger in a HUNTING rifle IMHO the 70 is a far better gun than a 700. The 3 position safety is better, the steel floorplate on a 70 is stronger, The safety blocks the firing pin not just the sear. The claw extractor can be tuned to feed much better than a 700's snap over. And the Trigger is simpler and requires less wood removal.................DJ

Mine has been nothing but easy to load for since I got it!

I wouldn't be overly concerned over it having issues.

link#1

link#2

Here's a couple of links to some very minimal load work with accuracy pics. A side note the groups were shot with my 130 gr load zero so in a pinch, at the ranges I shoot critters I could pick up any load and be hunting accurate<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mike

I just realized in link #1 the picture of the target is upside down <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

When fired the bullets hit low and right and were climbing upward toward the black!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Most of the accuracy concerns I have about my 70's involve me darn it!

I have experience with five model 70's of my own and some owned by friends.

I have had no accuracy issues of note with Model 70's except for bedding issues.

With some wood and the new plastic stocks until they are bedded and floated zero's wander around. Post war Featherweight stocks have swolllen and split on me. Conversely the Standard Grade stocks with the intermediate barrel screw have been unchanging.

The point I am trying to make is that most O'conner era shooters liked Featherweights and I would look at stock bedding if I had any problems.

My stainless classic .338 which never shot particularly well until I put a McMillan stock on it. Squirmed around in the Tupperware one.

The two most accurate are a prewar .30-06 and an 80's era pushfeed. Least accurate is a 1954 FW.

The Remingtons are also very accurate.

I do find the Sako's to be commonly more accurate than either.

I currently own a bunch of M70's and all except one have been quite accurate. The one that wasn't had a factory barrel with the wrong twist rate on it, somehow..

Don't be afraid to get one. I think you'll be very happy.

I have found that if you have a Model 70 action blueprinted, rebarreled, and bedded properly that it'll shoot just as well as if it were based on a Model 700 action or anything else, at least in the form of a hunting rifle. I own Model 70 custom jobs from Echols and Penrod that are honest 1/2 MOA rifles with premium hunting bullets, in calibers ranging from 270 Win. to 416 Remington. Based on my experience with the Model 70 over the years, any notion that it's incapable of delivering fine accuracy is ill-founded.

Historically, the Model 70 action has been used as the basis of more rifles that have won the 1,000 yd. Wimbleton than anything else, which is a fact that should also tell you something.

I've owned a great many stock Model 70 factory rifles over the years, including pre-64s, post-64 push-feeds, and Classics. With proper loads and some tweeking, MOA groups were the norm, not the exception. Yes, there were some dogs that just-plain wouldn't shoot. That's the risk you run with factory rifles...........

AD

I have a heavy barrel pre-64 Model 70 target rifle in .30-06 that is quite accurate. All the others I have owned have been plenty accurate. So are my Rem 700s.

As dpaintless said, gunsmiths use the 700 for building accurate rifles because the cylindrical action makes them easier to build the fixture for squaring up the action and bolt face.

You see more handsome hunting rifles built on the Mausers and Model 70 - Echols, Gowdy, Biesen, Jaeger, Grisel..

All that I have had (5) have been accurate save one. It had an extremely long throat and was chambered for a 7x57. That being said all are free floated, bedded properly with lugs lapped. No blue printing, etc. Matter of fact, I bought a .270 WSM take-off barrel and stock to go with it from a board member, had it fitted and it shoots 130 gr TSX's under 1" when I do my part.

I bed my own from tang through the action and approximately 2- 1/2" in front of the receiver ring, rest is free floated. Floorplate and guard are bedded as well to ensure everything being nice and straight. If you bed your own, I would recommend doing it in three stages. Bed the lug area and attach the rear action screw with the guard in place (if two piece), if one use the entire assembly-barely tighten the rear screw, just so it makes contact with the tang. Make sure the stock is level in a vise and the action is level as well after seating. Come back and do the rest of the action and tang, then the floor plate, except this time snug up the front screw and don't even use the rear at all (until you are done of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). Tighten the front and rear screws like any other rifle and if you have a middle one, tighten just enough so the floorplate closes.

Hope it helps.

Remember reading a Guns&Ammo a few to 10 years ago in which they were testing a model 70, 30-06 (Sporter), I believe. They had it loaded up with 168MKs, consistant 1/2" groups @100yds., Can't remember if they were 5 shot groups, though I think they were. Winchesters shoot fine, mine does, anyway. When I try out the 168AMAXs and MKs I've got waiting downstairs, then we'll really know if it shoots, good. I'm betting it does. JAG

Model 70 Winchesters are as accurate as any other rifle mass produced today.

I always expect a model 70 to shoot sub MOA after it has been bedded, the trigger de-lawyerized and the scope bases glued with rings lapped.

It usually takes very little load developement to shrink the groups.

Remember that seating depth plays the largest part in accuracy and if you get a wide triangular group, seat the bullet a quarter turn further out and reshoot and repeat until the group shrinks.

Like wise, if you get the more common 2 shots together and the third going wider, seat deeper a quarter turn and reshoot and repeat until that stray comes into the group.

One thing the experts do not tell you is that the Model 70 has an integral recoil lug which is a huge benefit to bedding over many of the others with recoil lug design that is grossly inferior to the model 70 for many reasons.

AGW

I've had a good many rifles in the 40 years I have been involved in hunting and shooting. All of em were factory rifles. Most were dependable and a few were absolute tack drivers.
Since about the 1990s I have been burned by a few Remingtons and Winchesters....horrible bedding jobs and horrendous triggers...nothing that couldn't be remedied...but still frustrating.
The GOOD NEWS is that I bought two Winchester 70 Ftwthts and two Rem 700s this past year and all of them were put together right and shot under MOA (reloading) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am happy to see some good shooters coming out of those two companies again! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Aussie,

Is this actually true? I've reloaded for 25 years and never read that or figured it out on my own. That is a superbly simple way of thinking about it. Now I gotta prove it to myself. Got some 120's to start testing, be looking for it there.
I not afraid to learn a new trick but this is something I should have noticed. Guess I have always put 'em out as far as I could to get the best groups.
Anyway thanks man for the learnin'

Windstalker...

I am gonna play with that too, but in reality, each gun is unique to my experience. My guns...if you have a bullet that groups ok, you find a powder and charge behind it to tighten it up. For example: my 300WinMag...Shooting 180 Horndady's at @3150 fps...will group better shooting the same bullet at the same velocity from the same case, same seating depth, and same primer using R-19 versus R-22 or R-25. Why? I dont know, but it does.