|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. Yah, because she was only a Jew, right, and not a real person, and therefore without moral agency and incapable of consenting? I've heard it before. It doesn't impress me. the way I read it she diden't give her consent, where in the bible did she give her consent?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. The Holy Ghost is a rapist?? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Imposed morality, of any flavor...on any platform, is wrong and should be put down...IMO That's like saying that for a guy to flap his arms and fly to the moon is wrong and should be put down. It's an academic point. Morality cannot be imposed from outside. Someone acting in a particular way because he fears retribution if he acts otherwise is motivated by law, not morality. A man who acts morally does so because he chooses voluntarily to choose his own behavior in such a way that it approaches a moral standard that he has willingly adopted for himself. A rapist (in the classical sense, now, not one of the more modern watered-down versions) who impregnates his victim requires her, among other things, to make a decision between at least two unpleasant alternatives--making room in her life on very short notice to carry a pregnancy to term, or murdering her own child. It's a heinous violation of her rights to force her into such a choice, which is one of the reasons that we think of it as such a terrible crime. But looking for a cheap, quick way out of it--well, okay, it's murder, but in this case I guess we can give you a pass--isn't a solution to the problem at hand, and defrauding the victim into thinking it is one is a further violation of her rights. Regardless of what the government says, if she has an abortion she will become a child-murderer, and years later when she's lying in bed staring at the ceiling wondering if it was a boy or a girl she killed and whether she would be a grandmother by now if she hadn't, the government will not be there with a solution. It's one of those bad things that you can't make better. But you can definitely make it worse, that's for damn sure. You can make anything worse by denying reality. Well said.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. Yah, because she was only a Jew, right, and not a real person, and therefore without moral agency and incapable of consenting? I've heard it before. It doesn't impress me. the way I read it she diden't give her consent, where in the bible did she give her consent? Luke I, 38, i.e., First Chapter of Luke, verse thirty-eight.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,278 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. Yah, because she was only a Jew, right, and not a real person, and therefore without moral agency and incapable of consenting? I've heard it before. It doesn't impress me. the way I read it she diden't give her consent, where in the bible did she give her consent? Luke I, 38, i.e., First Chapter of Luke, verse thirty-eight. Exactly.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. The Holy Ghost is a rapist?? You are funny.HAHAHA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Jesus christ was a product of RAPE.. The Holy Ghost is a rapist?? You are funny.HAHAHA What are you misconstruing so as to find that funny?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,048
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,048 |
Sorry if this is filled with redundancies, probably already all covered. I had to pull this thread back up and see where it went. 3 pages left to read. If you were a woman and raped, what would you do? IF you did not have a choice, what direction would you go? Who are you as a person and are you responsible/emotionally strong enough to not only HANDLE being raped, beaten, violated and god knows what else but now you find out your giving birth. How's that going to affect you in the 8th grade? Can you finish high school? Bummer about your college plans. Hope there is someone who can carry you and your newborn through those BUMPY spots.
Hmmmm. Went from planning a semester abroad to being raped, beaten, pregnant, childbirth, motherhood and enough emotional torment to last 20 lifetimes plus 10 more. Shouldn't a mother's love for her child, her own flesh and blood, outweigh her loath for the child's sire? Cannot she set aside past torment? By this reckoning..... well... How many young unwed mothers hate their x-boyfriend/baby-daddy? How many x-wives hate their x? Do they take it out on their child? Yes. Some do, I'm sure, to a degree. But how many to the point of killing the child? or even just wishing it dead? I'd rather it be wished I were dead than be. "Who are you as a person and are you responsible/emotionally strong enough to not only HANDLE being raped, beaten, violated and god knows what else but now you find out your giving birth." I can't answer with 100% certainty, of course, because I"m not a woman, but they're two completely separate experiences... 3/4 of a year apart. I understand sex is the cause of pregnancy. I understand rape can give rise to hatred. but DAYUM. Was either the child's fault? Has he any guilt in the situation? Does guilt increase as he goes through life? I understand, the child was not conceived out of love. Neither was the child of a promiscuous young woman. In many cases, neither was the child of a married couple now divorced, but rather lust. The child didn't ask for any of it. Knew nothing about it. Didn't understand it. Wasn't even present. In every case, it has nothing to do with the child and the child has nothing to do with it. No fault. Guiltless. Unassociated and unaware. Picture........ perfect.......... innocence. Dayum. Just........... dayum. Seems to me mature people can draw lines of separation. Even immature ones know right from wrong. Guilt from innocence. Life from death. One of the hallmarks of immaturity is selfishness. Could any human act be more selfish? Don't want to be inconvenienced? Expect difficulty facing potential future reminders? Just can't live with yourself with an old memory in there? Adoption. Orphanage. Hell, even hopeless street urchin doomed to a meager existence is better than dead. I know which I'd prefer. And I know which I'd rather not be haunted with all the rest of my days. And where oh where IS that instinctive mother's love?
BAN THE RAINBOW FLAG!
PERVERTS OFFEND ME!
"When is penguin season, daddy? I wanna go kill a penguin!"
---- 4 yr old Archerhuntress
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I think it was St. Augustine who said:
"The world is a safe judge".
Along that line of thinking,most folks just "know" that - biology,philosophy, and religions be damned - there IS a difference between a first term abortion and one performed [or allowed ] later.
The idea that the abortion question MUST be resolved along a clear black/white line is a huge departure from our way of looking at other events culminating in the death of a person.We have laws ranging from "justifiable homicide" to "capital murder",with many other definitions in between.
We don't say that ALL homicide is wrong,but some is more wrong than others.
We [ St. Augustine's "world" ] say some is justified,and some is not.
Making exceptions for rape,incest,and the mother's PHYSICAL health makes sense to most folks....... me included.
BTW...I DID read all the posts in this thread before posting,so I know I'm at odds with some guys whose opinions I don't differ with lightly.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,071
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,071 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
Who among us here can tell me, clearly, simply, and plainly enough for my feeble mind to understand �
If "these truths" aren't indeed "self-evident" � "that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" � then who endows 'em, and when?
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
The "Who" part is easy,It's The Creator.
The "when" part is equally easy...... if a clear line Must be drawn,the answer is "at conception".
I'm arguing that it is inconsistent to demand a "clear line" with regard to abortion when we allow for shades of gray with regard to other homicides.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 574
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 574 |
It makes me laugh how many here are so big on the bill of rights, yet many will want to tell someone besides themselves how to live their life. That is a serious problem in America....we have lost contact with the bill of rights and started deciding what is right, well opinions change over time and now we are be oming the nanny state. It's not the mother's life in question. The whole premise of pro-life belief is that the fetus is a separate human life, with a right to continue to live that supercedes the right of a mother to kill it. The mother should have no more right to kill a 2 month developed fetus than she should have a right to kill a 2 year old child. The two actions are morally identical. It's fine to address the issue as a rights issue. But realize that half of America believes that two people are involved (the mother and the child), not just one (the mother). If we all thought that a fetus was a lump of tissue, there wouldn't be an abortion debate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209 |
Believe what you want, the FACT is that the body involved is not mine, yours or the governments, and none of us should have the right to impress our beliefs on them....it is America. I am not for abortion personally, but if we continue to nickel and dime American rights away.....we are on a path for disaster.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
It makes me laugh how many here are so big on the bill of rights, yet many will want to tell someone besides themselves how to live their life. That is a serious problem in America....we have lost contact with the bill of rights and started deciding what is right, well opinions change over time and now we are be oming the nanny state. It's not the mother's life in question. The whole premise of pro-life belief is that the fetus is a separate human life, with a right to continue to live that supercedes the right of a mother to kill it. The mother should have no more right to kill a 2 month developed fetus than she should have a right to kill a 2 year old child. The two actions are morally identical. It's fine to address the issue as a rights issue. But realize that half of America believes that two people are involved (the mother and the child), not just one (the mother). If we all thought that a fetus was a lump of tissue, there wouldn't be an abortion debate. Exactly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Believe what you want, the FACT is that the body involved is not mine, yours or the governments, and none of us should have the right to impress our beliefs on them....it is America. By that defective reasoning, a woman should be at liberty to kill her husband, or anyone else. "Who are you, after all, to try to control her body? If she chooses to use her body to murder the milkman, that's her free will, and who are you to interfere?" We're saying that this is an entirely one sided perspective to the issue. There's another human being involved in all those decisions. When you make your "arguments," what we're hearing is something precisely parallel to the above.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209 |
Suddenly I see where you are coming from. Perhaps it would be best if all men and women during ovulation, be disallowed from any activity which may place themselves in harms way, for afterglow they are carrying a potential human inside them.
Keep on trying to rule others lives and complaining that the government is taking away your own liberties, it defines hypocrisy.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
� If "these truths" aren't indeed "self-evident" � "that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" � then who endows 'em, and when? Been mulling this over a bit more � Can't think of any Scripture that'd shed light on the matter, but the ramblings 'n' rattlings in my ol' gourd suggest that God endowed us with those rights when He created human life. Long before my time. So I guess that I'm just guessing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,647 |
Keep on trying to rule others lives and complaining that the government is taking away your own liberties, it defines hypocrisy. What about the liberties and rights of the child?
|
|
|
|
|
678 members (10Glocks, 10ring1, 10gaugeman, 06hunter59, 02bfishn, 007FJ, 60 invisible),
2,748
guests, and
1,413
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,726
Posts18,475,896
Members73,942
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
