Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Conservative Despair: GET OVER IT!!!

Somewhere,.....somehow, along the way, you missed a couple of SALIENT points , or three, Bob.

You've CERTAINLY mis-read me, and probably as well the rest of this local crew here.

You'll ALWAYS be welcome here, regardless.

GTC

Best post in the thread. Pat Buchanan has long predicted that demographic shifts will doom the R party. I trust his judgement/opinion much more than Frums.

Somewhere,.....somehow, along the way, you missed a couple of SALIENT points , or three, Bob.

You've CERTAINLY mis-read me, and probably as well the rest of this local crew here.

You'll ALWAYS be welcome here, regardless.

GTC
=========

Thank you,Greg. Help me fill in the gaps on the salient points. I certainly wish to make sure my opinion hasn't been formed on some misperceptions or fallacies.

Mako...influx is part and parcel of immigration reform. Further,if I'm reading you right,Romney's plan seems to be a appropiate compromise. I agree influx is the paramount issue,it's actually the crux of my post. It was my intended crux,anyways.

If immigration reform is legislatively passed,what has you believing that ethnicity would still be predominantly democratic in philosophy? The awkwardly described "far right of center" position is precisely why Obama received the large majority of the Hispanic vote,imo. I don't know how you can distinguish influx vs. a Hispanic that's already been here for 3,5 10 years or longer;paying taxes and contributing to SS.

way too many simply dance around it. Let's just put honest positions and possible resolutions on the table to see if we can at least get past the 30 year demarcation lines.

I'll start. I like Romney's plan with the caveat it doesn't apply to those Hispanics who have paid into the Treasury and SS for at least 5 consecutive years. This specific class and any immediate family members for whom they provide support get to stay,without recourse.

National ID card which somehow specifically denotes those who are qualified to vote with the addition of voting machine software that immediately cross-references whether that ID has already placed a vote.

In any event,let me know what your position is on the resolution of this issue,if you don't mind. Like to hear from Greg in this regard,as well.

I'd like to have this issue completely settled and resolved by 4 pm Mountain Time.

I feel like we elected a tyrant to rule our country. Obama rules by decree ignoring the constitution. Then there is his purposeful actions to keep the country in recession in order to enable his fundamental change to the country. He is seeking to destroy our country so he can build his utopian progressive fascist state.

I've seen the reform, and compromise before. Democrats lie. They'll get the leagliaztion, then reverse course on securing the border. They've done it before - they'll do it again.

They've also done the same on "compromise" with regards to increasing taxs, and reducing spending. The tax hikes go forth, the agreed reductions in spending don't/won't.

You're headed into a trap - don't say you weren't warned.

Border's open, 75% D-voters comin' in. *tick, tick, tick*



Simply look at the voting history of Hispanics over the last forty-years. Teddy Kennedy and his cohorts KNEW the predisposition of Hispanic voters in the sixties, and capitalized, and fosterd this from then-'til-now. How you gunna change that? (you don't)

Forty-years in the making, and now well entrenched. The deaf ear, and outright cowardice of the R's has indeed "come home to roost." The devious, plotting, win-at-all-costs of the D's never sleeps - ever.

Red White and Blue Card.

Oh, the final nail in the coffin on this issue will be the campaign demagoguing. From now 'til the end of time (probably in Spanish too):

"we'll get your cousins here too, and give 'em health care, and food, and..... THOSE OTHER MONSTERS, well, they want to _________".

"Mr. Republican, tear down that wall!"

Mark my words.

With the Republican side legalization is all about cheap labor. Always has been. The Dems want the votes. You're right either way, it's a trap and no good can come of it. Bottom line, not even talking about terrorism, drugs or weird diseases...we're full up here. We don't need more people. The scientists told us to quit breeding years ago and educated folks did as they were told. The uneducated and stupid didn't. Now many of the same elitists or their type, as the scientists who gave us those orders, backed up by the stupid and ignorant, want to leave the borders open and welcome bad things into our midst. We simply can't compromise on some things.

Most politicians are psychotic suckassses who our forefathers would have cheerfully hanged.

Gingrich: Yeah, we have to get immigration off the table
November 13,2012

Most readers seem to disagree with my perspective on the necessity of resolving the immigration-reform issue while we still have a say in how it gets implemented. Newt Gingrich, however, sees the same problem that I do, which is that the issue is an albatross around the neck of the GOP as it tries to reach out to non-white voters. �You can�t say to someone, �I�d really like to get your vote over jobs,�� Gingrich tells the Morning Joe panel, ��and by the way, we�re kicking your grandmother out.� It doesn�t work.�

Opponents of immigration reform say that the �Asian problem� can�t be because of the party�s stance on illegal immigration because that�s an issue primarily related to Hispanic immigrants from our hemisphere. Wrong.

The party�s position on immigration is off-putting to many ethnic and racial groups because it reflects, they believe, a GOP that doesn�t want them and doesn�t want a diverse society.

David Goldman offers some insight on the subject:

Asian-Americans, like any other immigrant group, come here with the hope of bringing family members with them. Tough enforcement of immigration laws makes life as hard for them as it does for any other immigrant group, and frustrates their hope of reuniting families in America. The result of our present immigration laws is that we fail to keep out the illegals we don�t want, and make it harder to absorb the skilled and energetic immigrants we do want. There will be endless discussion during the next few months of [Mitt] Romney�s mistake in moving to the right of Rick Perry on immigration during the Republican primaries, and I will leave the detailed parsing to the professionals. I hope the professionals talk to Asian-Americans first.

Asians now outnumber Hispanics among new immigrants. As Goldman puts it, �If we Republicans can�t persuade our most successful, entrepreneurial, family-oriented citizens to support us, we won�t be in business much longer.�

It�s that perceived hostility to diversity that will lock the GOP out of urban centers, where Democrats enjoyed a big turnout, even with a better economic message and policy. Note that the GOP share of the Asian vote declined by an even greater degree in 2012 than the decline in the Hispanic demographic. The Republican Party has to improve its standing among these demographics � not by pandering, but by offering conservative solutions that improve their lives. But in order to make the argument, we need to improve the perception of our agenda, and immigration reform is a big obstacle to that goal.

Yep

Open borders, and Red White and Blue Card.

70% or more are gunna pull the D lever.

Strange how those of us who actually live here come up with the same conclusions.

I'm gonna throw out a caveat though. All "Mexicans" here in the US ain't the same, anymore than Yankees are the same as Southerners.

Most Texas Mexicans date from three or four generations or more back, originally refugees from revolution and political unrest. Really, they are the descendants of immigrants like the rest of us and like for most of us the country of their origin is something of an abstraction, like how all my grandparents are Irish but I've never been nor do I pay attention much to that nation.

This is why radical separatist Latino politics don't get much traction here.

Go to New Mexico and its a different again, the ones I've encountered there were descendants of old New Mexico, been on the land for centuries, leaning towards resentment of the more recent invaders, Anglo and Hispanic both.

Arizona/California? A whole different ballgame, actual Mexicans or first generation born-heres, and Mexican flags abounding. How many Mexican-born folks live in LA now... a million?

I can state for a fact that, here in Texas, on a social level nobody really gives a damn about the differences 'tween Hispanic and White, to call me and my wife "interracial" seems laughable.

Go to small towns in Northern New Mexico however and we'll get hard looks.

But Arizona/California? Plumb shocking in the big cities at least how distinct the lines are drawn along social/political lines.

Other's MMV,
Birdwatcher

You were social climbing when that lovely wife of yours looked twice.

It's interesting to note the stark differences between yours and Mako's posts. I don't agree with him as to the prospective vote once immigration reform occurs but his opinion can't be ignored as it is also still shared by many.

Further,I agree as to the regional disparities and that is why I previously stated a compromise that makes everyone partially unhappy,or completely dissatisfied,will ultimately be the bed that's made.

To paint is as a total picture of doom presents as a dogmatic philosophy that's been the headline for 30 plus years.

Good or bad,make the bed and end it.

Good post Birdie and as I've posted countless times, Latinos (unlike say blacks or jews) are FAR from a monolithic voting block. I was just in Texas last month (San-Antonio/Uvalde/bracketville area) and the support for Romney(as evidenced by numerous placards, etc) was clearly visible. But just as you say, those ten generation "Texicans" are a far cry from what is coming in through our borders now and when coupled with the purposeful blocking of immigrants from First and even Second World countries by the democraps, the change in my iew IS inexorable.

Heard a guy on the radio who sounded Latin American and claimed to be Latin American say that Latin American immigrants vote D because that's how politics operates where they come from. They vote for the guy who gives them stuff. Immigration policy isn't going to change that.

This theory is backed up by Hispanic voting patterns after other amnesties.

Making the R sale tougher is US advertisements on the radio in Mexico for US Foodstamps.

All these posts with all these 'feel-good' ideas and arm-chair directions - along with righteous chest-thumping of 'conservative values'..

I love it.. Unfortunately - the chance of any of it coming true now is the same as if T. Woods will win the first Mars Open Championship..

You guys are all in denial - and frankly, it's understandable; no one wants to allow the reality of where this country's now rushing headlong to enter into their brains.. I suffered some of it myself over the last four years.. But NOW, the reality is here. I see the reality. The worst P in American history is re-elected - a Marxist-socialist, American-hating sob who should be in a federal prison rotting away..


JFK's famous line, "Ask not what your country can do for you................" is now reversed to, "Ask not what you can do for your country - demand your country do everything for you!"


Wake up - face it.. This is where we are today.. Prepare..

removed

It's not the Hispanics who have been here for generations (many, before there was an America) that are on the gravy train - and votin' D. It's the flood of illegals, and has been for forty years. When looked at as a whole, 60% (very conservatively) vote D. It's not hard to figure out.

No different than if you looked at Irishmen who've been here for generations, vs an influx of illegals seeking a better life. If the Irish could swim better, the D's would be draggin' 'em ashore, givin' 'em a bowl of soup, directions to government services, and warnin' 'em 'bout that devil-named-Republican.

So, the proposed solution?

Open the border, make a pathway to citizenship.

Just plainly STUPID.

Ahhh well, so it is.

Bingo... illegals voting, nonamericans voting, noncitizens voting... and we are supposed to cater to this demographic for their illegal votes... and this policy coming from republicans.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

Kent

Non-Americans being elected president...

David Frum was very much like Casandra, able to see the election outcome but no one would listen. The GOP took a nice moderate New England Republican and made him unelectable. What did Mitt Rommney ever do to you?