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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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Yeah those big slow moving bullets really blow chit out of meat
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
We are talking about camp defense. Quick shots and damage. Not 300y.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
Yeah those big slow moving bullets really blow chit out of meat Sure do when the animal is 150lbs. Why would you ever nees a 45-70 for that?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
Anthing in camp is going to be under 50y. For the 300m- My guess is your tundra experince is limited. 45-70 over a 30-30 for deer? Sorry but I like to keep meat. No reason to limit yourself with a 50yd gun, even if you *think* you will never see more than a 50yd shot. Even at 50yd, the 45/70 is so much more accurate than any 12 ga slug, especially a Foster type, that is a ludicrous comparison. Limited, as in none. makes my opinion no less valid. A gun is a gun, regardless of where its used. Lastly, the 45/70, or in my case, the .444, destroys no more meat than anything else. Again, you are showing your ignorance. Shot placement and bullet selection play a far larger role in meat preservation that bore size.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766 |
Yeah those big slow moving bullets really blow chit out of meat Sure do when the animal is 150lbs. Why would you ever nees a 45-70 for that? So a .45-70 with a 500gr bullet at 1500fps destroys meat, but a 12ga. with a 1oz(437.5gr) slug at the same fps doesnt.... Makes prefect sense to me
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
But..but..its all about camp defense. You know, buck-slug-buck-slug for those alternating waves of Grizzly and Ptarmigan.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
I'm curious about the camp defense thing.
I get the idea of having something for defense in heavy cover, but it seems like keeping any long gun constantly at arms length is cumbersome, not to mention heavy. Doesn't a handgun or a can of spray make your entire trip more comfortable?
But then when you say tundra, to me that sounds like open country. That sounds like a situation where a 45-70 might be ideal.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
But..but..its all about camp defense. You know, buck-slug-buck-slug for those alternating waves of Grizzly and Ptarmigan. Easy easy, dont you have some 32-20 to reload?
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
I'm curious about the camp defense thing.
I get the idea of having something for defense in heavy cover, but it seems like keeping any long gun constantly at arms length is cumbersome, not to mention heavy. Doesn't a handgun or a can of spray make your entire trip more comfortable?
But then when you say tundra, to me that sounds like open country. That sounds like a situation where a 45-70 might be ideal. Your right about the 45-70 in camp. But the point Im making is; there is no situation where a 45-70 would rain supreme. In camp I feel a 12ga is a better defense. On the premise that it can spray fast shots in a hurry with power. On the tundra a 300M would be better because of its range. Name a situation where a 45-70 would ever be the rifle of choice.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766 |
So now a 12 ga is faster that a lever gun?
By a dumb kid no less [video:youtube]http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=t2gvOnB9MU0[/video]
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
Im sure I could go on youtube and find a guy fireing a 12ga faster. NEXT!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766 |
Yep that's the point I am making. Arguing that either gun is faster is pointless.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
Oh, good Lord.
Shotguns are a [bleep] compromise for anything but wing shooting.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214 |
Me personally,i like lever guns. But the Marlin in 45/70 isn't a gun everyone can handle.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533 |
I'll say one thing for the OP, when he's wrong, he's all the way wrong. No second-guessing or anything like that, total, 100% jump in with both feet wrong.
Probably voted Democrat, too.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,733
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,733 |
I'm curious about the camp defense thing.
I get the idea of having something for defense in heavy cover, but it seems like keeping any long gun constantly at arms length is cumbersome, not to mention heavy. Doesn't a handgun or a can of spray make your entire trip more comfortable?
But then when you say tundra, to me that sounds like open country. That sounds like a situation where a 45-70 might be ideal. Your right about the 45-70 in camp. But the point Im making is; there is no situation where a 45-70 would rain supreme. In camp I feel a 12ga is a better defense. On the premise that it can spray fast shots in a hurry with power. On the tundra a 300M would be better because of its range. Name a situation where a 45-70 would ever be the rifle of choice. So now you're saying a 12ga and a 300win is better than a 45-70... Sorry, I've gotta side with your brother. Edit, I just reread your original post and there too you were mixing Camp defense and hunting for meat, rifle/shotgun, so yes I'm confused.
Last edited by colodog; 11/20/12.
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,293 |
Dude is looking for someone to back him up in arguing with his brother.... And he's wrong.. lol!!
I'll take the 45-70 over the shotgun any day.
If you are looking for an "out" route in your losing argument with your brother, then tell him to have a look at the .450 marlin.
Really no better than the 45-70 with modern " + pressure" loads like buffalo bore etc, but he won't have to shop as hard for high energy.
350 gr, 3427 ft lbs
A big ole stout jacketed bullet from a rifle barrel.
For when "spraying" lead turds through a pipe doesn't cut the mustard.
lol!!
Something clever here.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,214 |
Just curious what is your brother "defending the camp" against?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,532 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,532 Likes: 2 |
I've shot deer with every caliber he's mentioned, and the .45-70 was, especially with hardcast, the least destructive of tissue of any of them, including the .30-30 Winchester. Well, the Hornady 300 grainers at 2200+ FPS mv were a bit on the destructive side. The Speer UniCors solved that problem.
The hardcasts will go through a lot more animal than a deer, and with very little bloodshot meat. But they break everything that gets in their way.
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