So is socialism in schools good? Everyone here rails against it....are teachers over-worked here and not in Finland? There is so much double talk and bullsh.it here I'm not sure who I should hate or support....lol
Finland is the model we should support?....is Manlicher OK with this new campfire directive?
Finland isn't liberal but the US is?....along with the "liberal mandates"?
JFC....I wish you guys'd make up your mind.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
I think it is more a factor of the students and the national culture than it is the specific system of education. I would think that their students would do well with our system and many of our students would do poorly with their system.
edit: That is certainly not to say that our system is very good.
Of course educating the way Finland (and Canada) does it takes a lot of money.
Teachers (if a society values them) have to paid well enough that really qualified people will be lining up to compete for high paying jobs.
Now...if you don't think it's worth getting really highly qualified people to teach your kids - cheap out on the schools - and the teachers working inside - and hope for a miracle.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
My take: what worked for students in the 20th century, namely warehousing them in central locations and spoon feeding them all a standardized curriculum at a predetermined rate of advancement may not be right for the 21st century with the internet and instant access to information.
As fewer and fewer students are able to even graduate high school, I believe we are long overdue for a change.
Schools in Finland are teaching a relatively homogeneous population that comes from a culture that values education.
U.S. schools are teaching a hodgepodge of students from various backgrounds, many of which don't value education and some of which have active disdain for education, considering it going against their race to pursue an education.
Say what you want, but the most important indicator of school quality is the background of the students, not the teachers. U.S. schools from good areas with low populations of blacks and latinos are as good or better than any in the world. Schools with high "ethnic" populations can be as bad as any in sub-saharan africa.
You can have the best teachers in the world and they can't get through to a student who has been raised in a home of a crack whore mother with a steady stream of "baby daddies" coming through the door.
What does not add up? Our system is quite poor and tries to bring everybody down to a low level rather than trying to encourage excellence. However, those who seek excellence can still find it easily. My contention is that our society encourages mediocrity while the other society hold success in high regard. I certainly do agree that teaching should be a more professionally demanding job than it has become.
What does not add up? Our system is quite poor and tries to bring everybody down to a low level rather than trying to encourage excellence. However, those who seek excellence can still find it easily. My contention is that our society encourages mediocrity while the other society hold success in high regard. I certainly do agree that teaching should be a more professionally demanding job than it has become.
+1
There is no pride for our country in our schools anymore.....it's just a thing....
If 'ya can't put hot sauce on it, it ain't worth eat'n....
Schools in Finland are teaching a relatively homogeneous population that comes from a culture that values education.
U.S. schools are teaching a hodgepodge of students from various backgrounds, many of which don't value education and some of which have active disdain for education, considering it going against their race to pursue an education.
Say what you want, but the most important indicator of school quality is the background of the students, not the teachers. U.S. schools from good areas with low populations of blacks and latinos are as good or better than any in the world. Schools with high "ethnic" populations can be as bad as any in sub-saharan africa.
You can have the best teachers in the world and they can't get through to a student who has been raised in a home of a crack whore mother with a steady stream of "baby daddies" coming through the door.
Yup! The old "you can lead a horse to water, buy you can't make him drink" saying describes it. Basically, the kids flat out do NOT work very hard, nor are they required to. Surprise - they don't learn very much. Of all the necessities of education, the greatest is desire.
I taught for 6 years. I subbed for 3 more. I would go to schools and give lessons their teachers left for me, and I would marvel at how easy they were. A lot of the time, the kids couldn't even do them. My friends have said that we are "dumbing down" our children to make them more controllable. Government ploy to retain control? I don't know.
If they want to improve, I'll tell you one thing. The unions have to go. Merit pay? You are paid for how many years you have in, and it varies from district to district. I got paid the same amount for teaching physics as the teacher down the hall that taught ESL. I have 30 kids in my classroom and she has 4. I've got lab equipment to set up and down, to maintain and inventory. I'm also in the classroom 2 hours more outside the school day to set up and take down. I'll tell you what, with options, someone who goes to school long enough to teach physics is going to explore other options. You are not getting the best and brightest to teach. They are going elsewhere. They say "those who can't do, teach."
Well, Finland can have the #1 ranking. They also have the #1 ranking for suicide rates.
"I didn't get the sophisticated gene in this family. I started the sophisticated gene in this family." Willie Robertson
My take on the article is that getting away from standardized testing the kids to death would be a start in the right direction. Someone stated that the Finns were a homogenous population and that is a big part of it.
Regardless of some people's opinions, the US government has gone a long way in creating this mess we are in. Too many standardized tests, watered down curriculum, overcrowded classes, multi-cutluralism, and treating teachers as inferiors will have that effect.
Test the kids from your average Christian School in America, and you will see that the kids stack up pretty well against anyone else in the world. Test kids from the ghetto inner city schools, and they probably won't compare favorably with Zaire.
Several interesting points from the referenced portrayal:
1. "Compared with other systems, they rarely take exams or do homework until they are well into their teens." And yet, we have the "National Standards of Learning" program signed into law in 2002, designed to measure progress.
2. "There is only one mandatory standardized test in Finland, taken when children are 16." The US is measures driven; tests are regularly given to all grades. It will be difficult to changer this mind-set.
3. "Science classes are capped at 16 students so that they may perform practical experiments every class." Small classes mean more teachers; this costs money and the US wants to reduce government budgets.
4. "93 percent of Finns graduate from high school." Finland is a homogenous society with no political extremes arguing competing ideologies. Finland is more socialistic than the US and the nations is universally more liberal than the US.
5. "Finland has the same amount of teachers as New York City, but far fewer students." High governmental costs for smaller classes.
6. "However, high school teachers with 15 years of experience make 102 percent of what other college graduates make." and "In the US, this figure is 62%." Many are decrying the high cost of education in the US. Education is a labor-intensive enterprise and we need not cut, not increase, public budgets.
7. "Teachers are effectively given the same status as doctors and lawyers." Unlike Finland, we don't give our teachers much respect - "Those that can't, teach".
8. "And despite the differences between Finland and the US, it easily beats countries with a similar demographic." This is the real crux of the presentation. Norway has parents that care about their kids and encourage children to study, unlike many here in the US. This is the less we need to understand.
