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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,242 Likes: 33 |
Well, the thing is that buckshot won't expand where your .45-70 bullet does. Back in the mid '90s I had occasion to put down over 70 hogs, a couple of yotes and a few other assorted critters with buckshot. Mostly used #3 buck in a 20 ga but also used other gauges and shot sizes. Smaller buck is a quicker killer than large is the distilled message. Thinking it occurs because the number of wounds are higher.
I seldom shot anything beyond 30 yards and think folks shooting out beyond 40-50 yards are sprayin' and prayin'. My comments about buck penetrating thru and thru was not BS, just reporting the facts. Note too that I qualified that by saying it wouldn't happen if bone was struck.
BTW, a load of #8 birdshot at 20' will kill a hog deader'n a stump right where it stands.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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I gotta ask what ya'll think of using steel shot and how effective it would be against body armour? Seeing what it does to waterfowl, i don't want to get hit with a load of t's!
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,091
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,091 |
The last actual shoot-out locally involving buckshot involved three police agencies using different shot sizes: One was #4, one was #0 and the other #00. This was a running gun battle for the most part on a freeway. Care had to be taken because hostages were involved. Spike strips were used and the tires were flattened also by gunfire. The subject after taking loads of #4 and #0 was finally stopped by the officer replacing #00 with a slug. First shot with the slug at close range in the subject's head ended the confrontation and the subjects life. Subject was high on meth.
Last edited by Roundup; 12/23/12.
Happy Trails! NRA Life Member
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,242 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,242 Likes: 33 |
I have never shot the first load of steel shot. My opinion os steel shot v body armor is you're looking at a non-starter. It takes different properties to punch thru armor as compared to flesh.
On the other hand, unprotected heads, legs, arms and crotches remain vulnerable when wearing body armor so far as I know.
To touch again on the relative penetration of shot versus bullets in game animals, I've seen a similar result with use of CB shorts as compared to HVHP shorts an SV LR bullets. Expansion reduces penetration irrespective of impact energy, mass or energy. CB shorts will penetrate far deeper than HVHP ammo, or even SV LR. The CBs retain whatever SD they start with while the higher velocity bullet expand greatly...and stop. I think the analogy works with buck and conicals for the same reason.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,713
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
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Inside the typical room I would think the concussion from a 12 gauge would be enough to disable both the shooter and the shootee! Jim
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Campfire Outfitter
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Seen 2 people intentionally shot with 00 buck. One was about 90 yards away on foot, the other was through a windshield. Neither died but both were stopped. One deer about 50 yards, it went down like it was hit with a hammer but required finishing shots. Never seen anything shot with #4 buck. Just my .02 a 90 yard shot at anything with 00 buck is always a bad idea. Right, that's why they invented ghost-ring shotgun sights, Remington low-recoil slugs, side-saddles, and select-slug drills. You give me an 870 so equipped and about 2 seconds and you'll be [bleep].
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
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Steel shot will not penetrate a vest any further than lead in the 'testing' that I've done. I was disappointed with the level of penetration from a 12 Ga shotgun at anything past 10 feet. A slug, while not penetrating a vest at all, will leave it's mark!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Well, just so happens that I load and use both those sizes for most of my social work.
Here's my question back to the OP....why not use both?
I've used OO Buck on critters and I shoot #4 Buck for song dogs and any other varmint I'm after. Both have merits and will work fine.
My current loading in the Benelli M2 is 3 rounds of #4 buck, followed by 2 rounds of nickle plated 00 buck. I leave the chamber open with a round of 3" lead BB ready to stuff in it. This way I'm ready to kill a raiding Raccoon, or Coyote in the back yard (I live way in the country) or am set to deal with a two legged varmint as well.....
Good luck
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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IMHO, the Winchester slug and 3-00 buck load is ideal. They are in all of my home guns. This load covers all the ranges I may need.
The foundation for old age is good memories.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
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Can you guys post some pics of your shotgun patterns at 60,70, and 80 yards?
Dink 80 yard buckshot patterns would be, for the most part, too revealing.
Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Reading a lot of "thinkin'", thinkin' a lot of guesswork, assumptions and good fashion dogma is runnin' amok on this topic. Question I have is how many here have actually killed a lot of critters people with a variety of gauges and different sized buckshot? Trying to separate theory from fact on this. Fixed to fit the OP's question. Figure it cuts the # of guys with first hand knowledge down a bit.
Quit giving in inch by inch then looking back to lament the mile behind ya and wonder how to preserve those few feet left in front of ya. They'll never stop until they're stopped. That's a fact.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,242 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,242 Likes: 33 |
Well, I never killed people with buck but have used it on monkeys, do that help?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,988 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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00 to deer head at 30ft was so devastating.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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NRA Magazine article from test results about 30 years ago suggested that #4 shot offered the best penetration/knock down inside a building with less chance of going thru walls & injuring the innocent.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
It would seem if someone is shooting at me that I'd prefer something that could shoot through walls. I figure people are quicker to shoot from behind a wall then say a broom.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I'm also curious, what percentage of bad guys make ammo choices based on what is less likely to penetrate a wall?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
Point one: I have had the occasion to see several dead people did in by scatterguns. The worst damage I saw was by a charge of 7 1/2's. Can you say "bloody rathole"??? Point two: to answer Steelie, the bg's don't worry about anybody else's life and have no interest in liability. Standard issue citizen,one each does tend to care about such matters.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,650 Likes: 7 |
The wall penetration issue is a valid one if the possibility of family members on the other side. That not withstading, I prefer #1 shot over 00. #1 equates to 30 cal and there are lots more of them than 00 in your standard 2 3/4" shell.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Reading a lot of "thinkin'", thinkin' a lot of guesswork, assumptions and good fashion dogma is runnin' amok on this topic. Question I have is how many here have actually killed a lot of critters people with a variety of gauges and different sized buckshot? Trying to separate theory from fact on this. Fixed to fit the OP's question. Figure it cuts the # of guys with first hand knowledge down a bit. I already answered that and they don't want to hear it. 00 will work in instances that #4 won't. I've never witnessed any advantage in smaller shoot, other than the fact it is less lethal, which may be desired.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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I'll stick with 00 (1's would be fine also and I have some). I'd rather a load of 00 at 20 yards than 7 1/2's
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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