Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles I think we are getting over the hump on the shortages.

My Dad had a long commute. That's pretty rough. Good thing about the schedule.

in my part of va. 22 ammo s running 50.00 a brick at gunshows,223/556 is at 500-650 a 1000. not seeing hardly anything staying on store shelves.i can buy p-mags all day long at gunshows for 35.00

I just got back from Maine. Stopped at Kittery Trading Post, Cabela's, and L.L. Bean. Cabela's had the most ammo of the three but no 9mm or .223. Cabela's had .40 and .45acp, but nobody else did. L.L. Bean had .22lr not a lot but they had I would say atleast 15 boxes (not bricks).

As for guns the non-black guns were well stocked in all the stores. As for black guns Cabela's had a few and Kittery had a few. Nothing that made me want to pull out my wallet.

P-Mags none anywhere. If your looking for FN FiveseveN mags Kittery had 2 twenty round pistol mags and a bunch of the fifty round P90 mags.

Someone else said it best - people who use the term 'gougers' are people who feel entitled to someone else's property for a price less than that at which the other person is willing to sell.

In a free market there is no such thing as 'gouging'.

I don't feel entitled to anything i don't earn, however a gouger weather it be, General Motors, Exxon Mobile or a guy trying to sell an AR for twice the sugested retail is a GOUGER and that mentality is one reason this whole country is in the shape it's in. [bleep] you all - i got mine, is the American way. I understand the whole free market thing, blah, blah, blah and agree gougeing for something that isn't a needed thing (AR) isn't possible unless the buyer is willing, still the greed among some (sportsmen ?) sucks.

BS!

I'm not entitled to anything, I earn everything I get and was smart enough to stock up on AR's, magazines and components for ammo, heck I even have several thousand 22 shells.

But you won't find me sitting at a gun show trying to sell a $600 AR for $2000 or a brick of 22 shells for $100. When someone buys a gun at retail price and then tries to resale that gun at a profit, they are not only a gouger but are also engaging in gun trafficking. You do need a license to buy guns to resale for profit.

Now if you think it's a free market, why don't the manufacturers raise the suggested list prices? This latest scare has been magnified by the maggots hanging out at Walmart and the like, buying up the stock that comes in only to mark it up at the next gun show and make a buck. Makes me sick.

There certainly is such a thing as gouging and I hope they get busted.

Don't be so naive.

If a buyer thinks the price is too high they have a choice to walk away. A transaction voluntarily entered into by two willing parties is not gouging.

Nothing cures high prices like high prices.

Good for you.


If you're happy selling your guns for $600 when the market price is considerably higher, please feel free to do so.

Illegally selling guns without a proper license is something entirely different than so-called 'gouging'.



I'm not the one that is naive. It's called a 'free market economy' for a reason. Manufacturers, for various good reasons, are hesitant to dramatically raise prices due to temporary shortages. The market price is whatever a buyer and seller, of their own free will, decide it is as witnessed by a completed transaction. Market price is often lower than 'suggested retail' but other times is its much, much higher, as is currently the case for many rifles and types of ammo. The 'market clearing' price is that price at which supply equals demand. You will always find product selling above and below that price.

High prices help ensure adequate supply. I was at a gun show today and while I only bought a couple boxes of primers, there was no shortage of ammo or ARs. Had they been selling for pre-Sandy Hook prices the supply would have been gone long ago.

Keep in mind that while ***YOU*** may have an adequate supply of ARs and ammo, many have ***NONE*** and hence place a much higher value on them than you do.

The only 'gouging' that occurs is when the government forces sellers to sell below market price. This ensures low supply and hurts the consumer more than the higher supplies higher prices ensure.

+1

'Suggested retail' and 'market price' are two very, very different things. Market price may be and often is well below suggested retail or it may be significantly higher during times of shortage, panic buying or other events.

It seems pretty clear to me that you ***DO*** feel entitled to products at a price that is acceptable to ***YOU***, regardless of how highly the seller values it.

If, as you claimed, "Good thing is people are aware and not paying high prices. It won't be long and the gougers will be dumping them to get their money back." then wouldn't people buying at the 'dumping' prices be just as guilty of 'gouging' the sellers as you claim the sellers are of gouging the buyers now?

The only 'gouging' that occurs is when the government forces sellers to sell below market price. This ensures low supply and hurts the consumer more than the higher supplies higher prices ensure.

You can try to make it all warm and fuzzy anyway you want. When a limp dick who never owned a gun in his life, with a pocket full of your (free market economy) money buys all the guns and ammo of certain kinds he can get just to resell at bloated prices it's GOUGING. Ya i think it's starting to slow down, do to only the really desperate buying, and yes high prices will kill high prices, thank goodness. On another note there is NO free market economy in this country, not when the government subsidizes the big businesses that they chose at the rate they do : wake the [bleep] up. If the gougers get caught with stuff they can't get their money out of it's what they deserve, and if someone gets a good buy do to their dumping stuff oh well, i guess they will just have to pull up their big boy pants and take their ass whoopin.

Not trying to make it �warm and fuzzy�. Just trying to explain the facts to someone who gets upset when a seller doesn�t price their goods the way you want them to. Price gouging, by definition, is a judgment call made by someone who feels a price isn�t fair or reasonable.

If you have any Exxon stock you purchased 10 years ago, when it was around $34 a share, would you please sell it to me at the �reasonable and fair� price (as determined by me, the buyer), for $37.40, a 10% profit? PLEASE? (The current market value of such stock is considerably higher, at $89 and change, but hey, since we�re all people of good will here, you wouldn�t �gouge� me on the price, would you? I mean, that just wouldn�t be fair, would it?)

How long a person has owned a product, whether or not it is the first they�ve owned or if they have owned many, and what their acquisition cost was is irrelevant � the market price for that product is independent of those facts and the value of the product to the owner may be higher or lower than the market price.

You�re getting your panties in a bunch because people price their goods the way they want to and it isn�t in line with the prices you think are reasonable and fair. If you don�t like the price at which a seller is willing to part with their goods, don�t buy. Whining about it and complaining about �gouging� just displays your victim mindset.

Comparing it to stock is not apples to apples.

But if you want, let's try it this way. I have stock in XOM, right now it's at $87 something a share but because you don't want to look for it, I'll let you have it for $187. Per share.

That's what's going on with the gun market right now. People are finding the guns still at suggested retail, buying them and then trying to resale them at a huge profit. These people are gougers.

I sold an AR a few weeks after SH for $1600. But it had a Krieger barrel, a SOPMOD stock, Troy Alpha rail and a few other goodies. I got market value and made money on something i already had for sale but I didn't go buy another and try to resale it.

See the difference?

I'll add you can't justify buying up everything and marking it up to keep the scare going on. When gas stations do this after a severe storm, it's called price gouging, its illegal and the owners are punished. How is this any different?

Comparing it to stock is comparing one product and price to another product and price. Just an example and perfectly valid. A stock�s market value is just something some people can relate to more easily than the more nebulous market price of things like firearms, accessories and ammo.

It would be pretty foolish of me to buy XOM (Exxon) at $187 when the market price an hour ago was $89.40. Thank you for your offer, but I decline. (Besides, I already have all the XOM I want.)

That said, if you want to sell me some XOM, ARs, or PMAGs or whatever at prices far below market price, let�s talk.

You're still missing market value and inflated scare tactics.

When Walmart goes up on their prices then that is market value. When people buy up all the inventory at retail price and then try to turn it for a profit, that's gouging.

I can't make it any simpler.

Many economists quite correctly think anti-gouging laws are counterproductive. After the hurricanes in Florida some years back there was little incentive to rush in pumps form out of state because Florida�s anti-gouging laws depressed prices and potential profits while creating potential criminal liability. Why bother taking the effort if you can make more money doing something else?

High prices help ensure higher profits and thus higher supply. Anti-gouging laws ensure low prices, low profits and low supply.

I was at a gun show this last weekend and there was no shortage of ARs or ammo but nothing for prices I personally was willing to pay. I did buy a couple 1000-count boxes of primers at prices 38% higher than they were a couple months ago, but in today�s environment I considered myself lucky to find them at all.

In the case of high prices for gasoline, the high prices help ensure that the people that value it most (nearly empty tank) can get some while those who value it much less (tank at least full enough for immediate needs) will forego the immediate purchase and look for gas later at a lower price, usually somewhere else.

When Wal-Mart�s prices go up, those are Wal-mart�s new prices. They ***MAY*** reflect current market prices or not.


In effect what you are saying is that anything over Wal-Mart�s current prices is �gouging� or that if another vendor is selling for less, Wal-Mart is �gouging�. Nothing could be more disconnected from economic reality.

�Price gouging� is nothing more than a value judgment made by those who value a product or service less than the seller. The fact is that in a free market no transaction occurs unless both buyer and seller can come to a common value assessment of the product being sold. By definition, �gouging� cannot occur.

You may not like the price of a product and can grumble all you like, but I�m willing to bet you won�t part with your money unless you feel you are getting an adequate return for it. The proof is in the pudding � right now you�re doing a lot of grumbling but apparently not much buying.

It sure is a nice day today.

Sure is!