Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire DHS answers questions about ammo purchases

I have shown NOTHING but reverence for Brian Terry, and I for ONE haven't forgotten that he was sent into the desert by the Border Patrol, which answers to DHS, with rules of engagement requiring the use of a frigging BEAN BAG gun to confront and arrest heavily armed rip crews. He was murdered by firearms SOLD BY THIS GOV'T TO THE CARTELS! Do you think he was the first law enforcement officer sent out with those orders? No, he was just unlucky enough to be the first one to die because of them. Dozens or hundreds of agents were put at risk because this DOJ/DHS/CBP has a history of jailing, throwing agents under the bus or endangering their lives in order to protect illegal invaders. Terry is among those who have volunteered to protect our borders and confront an armed invader inside of our borders, and they suffer for it.

So, GFY.

What question of yours have I not answered?

If all that has been said about the gov't buying up all that ammo is untrue, the gov't should be in a 24 hr pants pissing mode just wondering where the first conflagration is going to take place and by who.

Being taught well by mother, I believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see.

Is that what you normally require, or did Nappy tell you to do a mil this year? :


Yea that's about what we normally get

It breaks down to about 1500 rounds per person. But remember not all of our part timers qualify with us most work full time with other depts. I guess my point was that while numbers seem huge if you break it down to individuals it really isn't that out of whack. How many rounds do you shoot a given year? Those rounds we don't shoot in official training are given to officers. Personally I change magazines every 3 months to let the springs reset. So I also change out my duty ammo at the same time.

Nope, your numbers aren't out of line and yes, they SEEM huge to Joe citizen, until you break down the qualifications, etc. for each officer.

Actually, they are somewhat low for that size of department.

I shoot more than 1,500 rounds. Sometimes in a month! (grins)

I see this as a great opporunity for enteprizing individuals to open ammo manufacturing shops.
Like others did in 2008.

Prices will be up, but That is once again, becaise your USD is worthless.

But the demand is there, all that is needed is supply.

Folks will step up to fill the gap.

It would be interesting to note whether this follows a pattern from earlier years - i.e., fifteen years ago or so, did they order substantial numbers of ammo also? Is there a way to compare (I have no idea where to start looking)?

Because it's the gov't - they NEVER do anything efficiently or economically...

Are you as certain as the sun rising in the east that it's not?

And there's Maude, always quick to present the FACTS.

You don't have the first [bleep] clue what you're talking about.

And you display ZERO reverence for that man. ZERO.


So, SMD.

Does your local Walmart manager report every detail of his managing to Mike Duke?

I'm sure he knows what's on the clearance rack there in Wasilla doesn't he?

Fifteen years ago the department was nowhere near the same size. Bush created it and the hiring of personnel was unprecedented.

The ratio of ammo to uniformed personnel was far, far greater fifteen years ago. The numbers you are seeing today are bare bones.

The government is not known for its efficiency. However, ammo shortages that were seen in 2008 were also unprecedented. Agencies and departments have simply adjusted. Same as the private consumer.

Again, the only people that are stunned by these numbers are people that have never worked a range.


Travis

My reach into the tinfoil aspect is that the "transparency" of the administration promotes suspicion and its working.

The more they can cause unrest and dissension in conservative and libertarians, the better it is for the administration and progressive agendas.

All it takes is people to snap enough, and the honey boo boo types will gladly acquiesce rights they don't exercise anyway.

As far as the bullets go - it doesn't matter how many the stormtroopers have. I'd be outnumbered regardless. If it even came to that. I'm just a surveyor.

Makes sense.. Good points..

True dat.. Yeah, we'd all be out numbered - but they're gonna pay one helluva price...

That's simply not true. Calhoun has neither said nor done anything that is disparaging of Brian Terry or his memory. There are plenty of points to argue here without claiming that.

It does make sense but the problem is the government refusing to answer any questions on something that shouldn't be highly classified and then giving nonsensical answers when nearly forced. I paid little attention to it at first, but the longer it has went on the more it has snowballed. Furthermore the ammo shortage is unprecedented. You and I have both weathered multiple ammo shortages in the past, but nothing like this with not even a .22 at Walmart to be bought. I was in my local one last night and yet again, not even a single CB cap on the shelves. Awesomely strange. Joe Citizen runs out of money sooner or later, but our government doesn't.

like

MILITARY TIMES TELLS US DHS AMMO PURCHASES NOT WORRYING

25th March 2013

Homeland Security�s Ammunition Purchases Should Not Worry You

Talk of the Department of Homeland Security�s recent ammunition solicitations has gone from the fringes of the internet to the mainstream in websites like Forbes. I was disappointed by the Forbes article � rather than talk cold hard facts, it was rife with ill-informed speculation.

Government and military procurement is a very complex topic; so complex, in fact that it�s sometimes hard to discern best value practices from actual waste, fraud, and abuse. However, there are practically no examples of nefarious acquisitions intended to be used for the subjugation of the American populace. These ammunition contracts and solicitations are no exception.

Before we begin, it�s important to understand that an RFQ (request for quote) or solicitation is not a purchase. When Infowars says something like �the Department of Homeland Security is planning to buy a further 750 million rounds of ammo in addition to the 450 million rounds of hollow point bullets already purchased earlier this year,� or �Following controversy over its purchase of around 1.2 billion bullets in the last six months alone, the Department of Homeland Security has put out a new solicitation for over 200 million more rounds of ammunition,� the reader is led to assume, naturally, that DHS has actually purchased that amount of ammunition. That is simply not the case. A solicitation is the equivalent of a want-to-buy ad on Craigslist, writ large. It�s not an actual purchase.


A CBP agent with M14 rifle and HK P2000 pistol, both of which require ammunition to function properly.

So if DHS hasn�t actually bought 1.2 or 1.6 billion rounds in one year, then what have they bought, and what do they plan to buy? Well, a year ago they awarded an IDIQ contract for up to 450 million rounds of .40 S&W ammunition over the next 5 years. They plan to buy, over the next 5 years, 63 million rounds of a wide variety of ammunition ranging from 12 gauge birdshot to .38 special wadcutter to .30-06 FMJ ammo; there are even line items for .308 blanks.

An IDIQ, or indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract, means that DHS didn�t simply buy 450 million rounds of ammunition at one time. The contract is spread out over a 5 year period, and it�s an upper limit, meaning up-to-90 million rounds of .40 S&W each year from that up-to-450 million round award. DHS could, if they wished, buy 73 million rounds the first year, 84 million the second, and so on. It depends on their needs at the time.

There is, as mentioned above, an Infowars article which refers to a �750 million round purchase,� but the PDF linked in said article is a solicitation which only contains line items which add up to 63,256,000 rounds. Confused? Here�s what a DHS spokesperson had to say about that:

�One solicitation under Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) has a contract ceiling of UP TO 750 million rounds of training ammunition, a maximum quantity allowing FLETC flexibility over the next 5 years for training of over 90 federal agencies. A separate 5-year department-wide contract allows the purchase of UP TO 450 million rounds of duty ammunition for our law enforcement officers and agents. This contract is intended to be used by all DHS components, except the U.S. Coast Guard, who uses U.S. Department of Defense ammo contracts. This contract is part of the Department�s strategic sourcing efforts to combine multiple previous contracts in order to leverage the purchasing power of the entire Department to efficiently procure equipment and supplies at significantly lower costs.�

Put simply, there�s no way that FLETC is going to actually buy 750 million rounds of ammunition. Given the historical use of ammo at FLETC of approximately 15 million rounds per year or less, it�s probably going to be pretty close to the line items in the PDF linked above which, again, total 63 million rounds over a 5 year time frame.

But isn�t a total which might approach 90 or 100 million rounds per year excessive?

DHS is a massive umbrella agency, with over 100,000 armed law enforcement personnel according to a DHS spokesperson. If we divide 90 million by 100,000, that means each agent gets 900 rounds per year to shoot. That isn�t a whole lot, considering that civilians going through handgun training courses sometimes shoot twice as many rounds � in a single weekend.

Furthermore, federal agents, including those under DHS, generally use the same ammunition for duty and practice. Currently, it�s a .40 S&W jacketed hollow point made by Federal, commonly known as the HST. Most of DHS�s evil, banned-for-war, elderly-and-baby-killing hollow points end up going through paper targets and into dirt berms. Each CBP (Customs and Border Protection) agent is currently given 250 rounds per quarter, or 1000 rounds per year. While things may differ from agency to agency, that lines up fairly nicely with the above math for the 450 million round contract.

In other words, that 5-year, up-to-450 million round ammo purchase is just what the agencies need to sustain proficiency for the next 5 years.

There are also references to a purchase of 200 million rounds of .223 Remington ammunition. However, the information at the link provided by the website shows a 5 year IDIQ contract for up to 165 million rounds, not 200 million. Yes, it�s a lot of ammo. But divided by the number of agents who have to practice with M4-platform weapons, over 5 years�well, we already covered that.



CBP vehicles near the border with Mexico in Organ Pipe National Monument, Arizona.

The Department of Homeland Security is not stockpiling ammunition for use against American citizens, nor are they buying excessive amounts of ammunition. If anything, I believe that 1000 rounds per year is not sufficient to maintain a high level of proficiency with a duty weapon.

In the end, there is absolutely no truth to the statements permeating the Internet about how �DHS bought 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition last year.� That number was reached through either basic math errors or willful ignorance on the part of those who make a living by crying wolf. That this rumor has traveled so far in conservative circles is especially ironic given the fact that a) buying in bulk is a fiscally smart decision, and b) hiring more DHS (CBP) agents to, among other things, better protect the border means buying more ammunition.

Lies Bob, it's all lies! They are preparing for war against American Citizens because the Bankers told them to! Alex Jones said so!

Yea but....

No because EE said so.