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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205 |
You know what still has me a bit bamboozled is the fact that the Barnes 168 TTSX loads hit about 1 1/2 to 2" lower than the Fusions do. The 165 gr Coreloks and the 165 grain Interlocks hit to almost the same POI as the Fusions do , and it suprises me that the Barnes loads hit that much lower. Have read that the Fusions are generally loaded a little mild but they have been almost identical to most other 165 gr factory loads I have shot. Cant imagine 3 grains making that much difference or they are just that much slower. The weight of the boolit has absolutely no bearing on where it will hit the target. Upon firing the barrel vibrates as the boolit is traveling down it, where the boolit exits the barrel in relation to this vibration is where it will impact the target. Thus a lighter boolit can actually hit lower on the target than a heavier one. This is why when we work up loads we search for the one load that exits the barrel in about the middle of the vibration cycle. As you add powder to the load you can see the groups opening and closing because of this phenomenon. Changing something as innocent as the primer can alter POI several inches. It changes the vibrations of the barrel. If you have seen the donuts that Sims sells for the barrel, this is to try and change the harmonics of the barrel. Same goes for the BOSS system on the Browning and Winchester rifles. As you move the BOSS brake out further it changes the harmonics within the barrel. That makes some sense but it does seem odd that most of the other loads in the same weight grain land very closely to the same POI on a vertical scale and for these 168's to hit even lower than 180 grain Power Points kind of surprised me. This pic below has a group covered in black stickies just below the orange bullseye ,that was 3 shots from factory 180 gr powerpoints and they actually impact higher than the 168 gr TTSX's. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DallSheep4me/30-06_zps5b47a413.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205 |
You know what still has me a bit bamboozled is the fact that the Barnes 168 TTSX loads hit about 1 1/2 to 2" lower than the Fusions do. The 165 gr Coreloks and the 165 grain Interlocks hit to almost the same POI as the Fusions do , and it suprises me that the Barnes loads hit that much lower. Have read that the Fusions are generally loaded a little mild but they have been almost identical to most other 165 gr factory loads I have shot. Cant imagine 3 grains making that much difference or they are just that much slower. Try some 180s in it if you want to tighten that group up some. Naahhh, 1"-1.5" @ 200 yards with flyers included is plenty good by me.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 956
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 956 |
I have had and still do have quite a few 700s, cant say I have ever had a real bad shooter. A couple I had to work up loads for to get to shoot well.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,130
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,130 |
Yep, POS Remington 700's. I was bored, so I wanted to build up a quick rifle. Used a new Remington 700 action and because I couldn't wait for the custom specification Pac-Nor barrel, in the meantime I stuck a Bergara prefit barrel on it chambered for .22-250. Head spaced it and tightened the barrel nut down with a plumber's strap wrench. Then screwed it down in a Bell & Carlson stock. Picked two loads out of a manual and loaded some break-in ammo. Thing didn't shoot worth a crap, I was real disappointed. ![[Linked Image]](http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj241/Wrangler-John/Targets1.jpg) Those little red diamonds are 1/2" square, I expected much better groups at 100 yards. You'd think all ten shots would stay together! I guess I should have bought a complete factory Remington rifle. Oh well, live and learn.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 44 |
You know what still has me a bit bamboozled is the fact that the Barnes 168 TTSX loads hit about 1 1/2 to 2" lower than the Fusions do. The 165 gr Coreloks and the 165 grain Interlocks hit to almost the same POI as the Fusions do , and it suprises me that the Barnes loads hit that much lower. Have read that the Fusions are generally loaded a little mild but they have been almost identical to most other 165 gr factory loads I have shot. Cant imagine 3 grains making that much difference or they are just that much slower. The weight of the boolit has absolutely no bearing on where it will hit the target. Upon firing the barrel vibrates as the boolit is traveling down it, where the boolit exits the barrel in relation to this vibration is where it will impact the target. Thus a lighter boolit can actually hit lower on the target than a heavier one. This is why when we work up loads we search for the one load that exits the barrel in about the middle of the vibration cycle. As you add powder to the load you can see the groups opening and closing because of this phenomenon. Changing something as innocent as the primer can alter POI several inches. It changes the vibrations of the barrel. If you have seen the donuts that Sims sells for the barrel, this is to try and change the harmonics of the barrel. Same goes for the BOSS system on the Browning and Winchester rifles. As you move the BOSS brake out further it changes the harmonics within the barrel. That makes some sense but it does seem odd that most of the other loads in the same weight grain land very closely to the same POI on a vertical scale and for these 168's to hit even lower than 180 grain Power Points kind of surprised me. This pic below has a group covered in black stickies just below the orange bullseye ,that was 3 shots from factory 180 gr powerpoints and they actually impact higher than the 168 gr TTSX's. I had a Tikka 06 once that would shoot 150's 165's and 180's all to the same POI but that was a very unusual barrel. When working up loads I expect the different bullet powder combos to be off by several inches in any direction. Especially the mono boolits like the tsx's. My 6.8 shoots the accubonds and the Sierra prohunters about an inch apart and shoots both very well. If all of this wasn't so. there would be no need for windage adjustments on sighting systems. We would only need up and down elevation adjustments to account for the various weight boolits as the sights would be in the very center of the sighting line and preset at the factory. I love it when a load comes together and when you keep shooting the hole in the target just seems to get a little darker with each shot. Means you have hit the sweet spot for that particular gun/load.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,918 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,918 Likes: 2 |
Used a new Remington 700 action and...stuck a Bergara prefit barrel on it....and tightened the barrel nut down.
I've never seen a Rem 700 with a barrel nut.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Used a new Remington 700 action and...stuck a Bergara prefit barrel on it....and tightened the barrel nut down.
I've never seen a Rem 700 with a barrel nut. You have now. Uses the Savage-type system threaded for a 700 action.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 1 |
Wow, I just bought a 700ADL synthetic in 223 not long ago at a
good price. Havent shot it yet, so I should just sell it and
get rid of it?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205 |
Yeah dump it Jericho, they are junk!.....grin
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,386
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,386 |
You know what still has me a bit bamboozled is the fact that the Barnes 168 TTSX loads hit about 1 1/2 to 2" lower than the Fusions do. The 165 gr Coreloks and the 165 grain Interlocks hit to almost the same POI as the Fusions do , and it suprises me that the Barnes loads hit that much lower. Have read that the Fusions are generally loaded a little mild but they have been almost identical to most other 165 gr factory loads I have shot. Cant imagine 3 grains making that much difference or they are just that much slower. The weight of the boolit has absolutely no bearing on where it will hit the target. Upon firing the barrel vibrates as the boolit is traveling down it, where the boolit exits the barrel in relation to this vibration is where it will impact the target. Thus a lighter boolit can actually hit lower on the target than a heavier one. This is why when we work up loads we search for the one load that exits the barrel in about the middle of the vibration cycle. As you add powder to the load you can see the groups opening and closing because of this phenomenon. Changing something as innocent as the primer can alter POI several inches. It changes the vibrations of the barrel. If you have seen the donuts that Sims sells for the barrel, this is to try and change the harmonics of the barrel. Same goes for the BOSS system on the Browning and Winchester rifles. As you move the BOSS brake out further it changes the harmonics within the barrel. Interesting I have almost always had heavier bullets impact higher on target.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Wow, I just bought a 700ADL synthetic in 223 not long ago at a
good price. Havent shot it yet, so I should just sell it and
get rid of it? I have no idea why you are asking me but I guess that's up to you. I was just pointing out that there is a Remington 700 system that uses a barrel nut now. No judgement was implied.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Wow, I just bought a 700ADL synthetic in 223 not long ago at a
good price. Havent shot it yet, so I should just sell it and
get rid of it? Yes. get rid of it. Being the benevolent soul that I am, Id be willing to offer 50 cents on the dollar.... 
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,025 Likes: 1 |
JSH, I was just fooling, nothing intended towards you.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771 |
Wow, I just bought a 700ADL synthetic in 223 not long ago at a
good price. Havent shot it yet, so I should just sell it and
get rid of it? Get shed of it before it makes ya crazy mad. One of my hunting buds bought one when they were still "new". Picked up several boxes of American Eagle 50gr soft points so he had something to shoot in it right away, along with RCBS dies. That POS shot so well with that cheap ammo, that he went back and bought an entire case from the same lot number, never did get around to using the dies. Claimed he'd use his time to load "real ammo". So naturally, I eventually had to have one myself. Would've prefered having his rifle, but his widder won't sell anything. My M700ADL synthetic (1984 vintage) cost me $395 (used, but barely). That included scope bases and a Timney aftermarket trigger, which is superb. It's one of the "original" ones like his, with a fairly stout 24" barrel and yeah, it also shoots very well.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205 |
I've got a McMillan Edge in Olive Speckletone coming that should be here next month. Its inletted for a mag contour with bottom metal since I was gona put it in a 257 ROY that I recently sold. So now I gotta decide whether to pick up a POS SPS in 300WM,7MM, or a short mag to put in it, decisions decisions......
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Heres another POS... A Stainless SPS I had AIed and plopped into a Ti stock... ![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/castnblast002.jpg)
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,918 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,918 Likes: 2 |
Used a new Remington 700 action and...stuck a Bergara prefit barrel on it....and tightened the barrel nut down.
I've never seen a Rem 700 with a barrel nut. You have now. Uses the Savage-type system threaded for a 700 action. Thank you.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,034
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,034 |
Are the new 700 SPS' manufactured without the J lock?
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132 |
My 700s shoot like crap too.
Sorry about your misfortune.
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