Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Fort Worth Police Shoot Before Asking Questions Killing Innocent 73 Year Old Man

"You are the cops: What do you do if he A: doesnt put the gun down after being ordered too.

B: puts the gun down but pucks it back up as has been suggested?"

That has puzzled me from the start.

Now that it's been reported that only one cop did all the shooting, it might be that the one who didn't shoot said the old man dropped the gun.

The one who did shoot claims he had a gun.

So... to square up both statements,.... you have him drop the gun............ and then pick it up again.


If someone can postulate a more plausible explanation, I'm open minded.

Gene. Cant say for sure but its possible. That both officers were not side by side. Maybe the other was at an angle where he couldnt see the gun/ have a clear line of fire?

Or maybe the other officer had a better mental perspective, and realize the guy was just picking it up to walk back into the house.

Well said.

FWIW:

I was out with a LEO on Thursday. He had a couple of comments that are relevant to this discussion.

1. - They are trained that, if dark, ALWAYS shine your light into the guy's eyes. Use the spotlight from the cruiser or use your flashlight, but put in in their eyes. That way, you can see them but they CAN'T see you. They are blinded. Who knows, but in this case maybe the old guy did not know, other than perhaps hearing a "loud command voice" that the people shining the light at him were cops.

2. - Their "understood" department protocol, when rolling up to what the refer to as an "active scene" is to shoot everybody with a gun in their hand. It is entirely up to the individual cop if he wants to give a command to drop or not. They are fully authorized to shoot everybody with a gun. Period. He advised me to think twice about using a weapon and coming to someone's aid before or after the cops show up. He advised that even if I was assisting an officer down that I would likely be immediately shot by the next leo showing up if I was holding a gun.

3. - They are taught that their primary goal is to finish the shift alive and in good health. Yes, they mix it up with the perps, but do not take any chances. They are taught that in this event, as described, that it is unfortunate but the cops were just following protocols as they have been taught. Unfortunate and that's about it. Remember, they are not out there to protect the citizen. They are out there to apprehend criminals. This is important. YOU are considered to be a potential criminal until demonstrated otherwise. This old guy would simply be seen as unfortunate collateral damage.

TF

I've lived in Fort Worth a long time- had both good and bad experience with FWPD- mostly bad, I'm ashamed to say. No need to tell my stories here.

Their training of officers is antiquated and barbaric, and is done to give the officer a feeling of superiority and dominance over the general public. I am aware of this from inside knowledge of people at many levels of Local and federal LE. They have a very high academy drop out rate, and these student move on to other local PDs with more modern, humane, and progressive training.

The people of Fort Worth seem to have come out overwhelming In support of the old man and his family, and want to know the truth about what happened.


I am following this closely to see how it turns out.

Oh...due to the low class static on this thread, I have found it much easier to follow and more informative since I have put Dink an Isaac on my ignore list.

Bud

TFF!

I"ll say it. The city cops in this area are all liars. Any time I encounter one, I just look at my watch, and see how long it is before I catch then in a lie. Usually it's around 5 minutes. Sometime it's longer, but virtually always I will catch them in a lie. The County Sheriffs are very different. Seldom will you catch one of them in a lie. I believe this probably started with Frazier v. Cupp which ruled cops can lie so long as it's not "offensive to the court". The problem is, they get so used to it, they can't stop. This dynamic has a highly corrective effect on the relationship between Law Enforcement and the public. If you can't trust them to tell the truth in casual conversation, how can you trust them to tell the truth after they kill a 73 year old man standing in his own garage? The answer is you can't, so any benefit of any doubt should go to the dead man who can't tell his side of the story.

The cop who killed that innocent man should be behind bars facing manslaughter (minimum) charges right now. He made a mistake and he should take his lumps like a grown man. NO excuse for not being able to count house numbers (odd/even) and end up on the wrong side of the street when responding to a burglary call, it's part of being a "professional" LEO.

2. - Their "understood" department protocol, when rolling up to what the refer to as an "active scene" is to shoot everybody with a gun in their hand. It is entirely up to the individual cop if he wants to give a command to drop or not. They are fully authorized to shoot everybody with a gun. Period. He advised me to think twice about using a weapon and coming to someone's aid before or after the cops show up. He advised that even if I was assisting an officer down that I would likely be immediately shot by the next leo showing up if I was holding a gun.

3. - They are taught that their primary goal is to finish the shift alive and in good health. Yes, they mix it up with the perps, but do not take any chances. They are taught that in this event, as described, that it is unfortunate but the cops were just following protocols as they have been taught. Unfortunate and that's about it. Remember, they are not out there to protect the citizen. They are out there to apprehend criminals. This is important. YOU are considered to be a potential criminal until demonstrated otherwise. This old guy would simply be seen as unfortunate collateral damage.

TF

...I imagine...

The quote is the only truthful part of your post.

The quote is the only truthful part of your post.

FWIW:

I was out with a LEO on Thursday. He had a couple of comments that are relevant to this discussion.

1. - They are trained that, if dark, ALWAYS shine your light into the guy's eyes. Use the spotlight from the cruiser or use your flashlight, but put in in their eyes. That way, you can see them but they CAN'T see you. They are blinded. Who knows, but in this case maybe the old guy did not know, other than perhaps hearing a "loud command voice" that the people shining the light at him were cops.

2. - Their "understood" department protocol, when rolling up to what the refer to as an "active scene" is to shoot everybody with a gun in their hand. It is entirely up to the individual cop if he wants to give a command to drop or not. They are fully authorized to shoot everybody with a gun. Period. He advised me to think twice about using a weapon and coming to someone's aid before or after the cops show up. He advised that even if I was assisting an officer down that I would likely be immediately shot by the next leo showing up if I was holding a gun.

3. - They are taught that their primary goal is to finish the shift alive and in good health. Yes, they mix it up with the perps, but do not take any chances. They are taught that in this event, as described, that it is unfortunate but the cops were just following protocols as they have been taught. Unfortunate and that's about it. Remember, they are not out there to protect the citizen. They are out there to apprehend criminals. This is important. YOU are considered to be a potential criminal until demonstrated otherwise. This old guy would simply be seen as unfortunate collateral damage.

TF

Except its OUR job to be there not his, he should have put his weapon down. He placed himself in a bad situation. Its a trajic trajic situation all around for ALL concerned. But until YOU have walked in our ahoes the best thing to do is STFU

2. - Their "understood" department protocol, when rolling up to what the refer to as an "active scene" is to shoot everybody with a gun in their hand. TF

"It's become standard procedure for cops to lie in their interactions with the public in order to manipulate them into inculpating themselves in some way."

I've witnessed it myself. While interviewing a suspect, cops toss in lies designed to trip them up and/or encourage confessions. A favorite appears to be to suggest a contraction where none is present, i.e., lie about what the suspect said a few minutes previously so as to convince them they're being railroaded, so might as well try for a deal.