Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .45 ACP for bear protection - what bullet?

The round does not have enough energy for bears with humps. Bring something else. Almost anything else.

I will never forget one of the early days working in Alaska, carrying a Ruger SBH in .44 mag and seeing bears every day. Then I saw a set of tracks the size of dinner plates with large claw marks and water oozing back into them. I almost wet my pants. After that I always carried a rifle.

Wussies!



DMc

A "big" glacier griz would get run off in most of Alaska.....so a 505 could be safely reduced to a 416 in glacier country.

I feel as safe as possible with either my 329 or g20, both stoked with heavy hardcast fat meplat pills going as fast as I can reliably shoot them accurately.

Phil always has used and at times still does use the 30-06 for such. Phil is not a hand gunner as for as I know and does no think that they are a good choice.

I would use a 255 grain hard cast in the 900 fps range such a Buffalo Bores load
As always bullet choice is the key in handguns as well as rifles for that matter

I live and hunt around GNP. Carry bear spray, and talk while hiking. Leave the 45 auto at home or at least in the car. Seriously.

Personally I would never ever bet the farm on bear spray alone. What if a person accidentally got between a sow and her cub? The mother goes into protect mode and makes a full charge and the wind is blowing into your face, not my idea of the way to go. I much prefer to have a sidearm in that situation

Much as I like the 45ACP & 1911's, I'd advise you to get & carry a 41 or 44 Mag if you're serious about this issue.

MM

I've never shot a grizzly, let alone a charging one but I think I'd carry the pepper spray for bears and your 9mm for smaller threats assuming the 9mm is smaller/lighter than the 1911. If you have an all steel 1911, that sucker is going to be as heavy as a big-bore revolver. If I had to carry 40+ ounces, I'd just get a used 4" 44 mag & some hardcast factory ammo. Even then I wouldn't feel all warm and fuzzy that I'd be prepared for a grizzly. If you don't have a use for the 44 after the trip, sell it for what you paid. That's "if" I were hiking many miles and decided to carry 40-50 ounces of handgun.

I could be wrong but even if you had a big-bore magnum revolver I think that hitting the brain or spine is the only way you'll stop a charge. Seems like a difficult task with a handgun.

I carried 255gr hardcast Auto-rim ammo in a 45 ACP revolver that went ~900 fps. I don't know how well that load would penetrate a bear skull. We don't have grizzlies here, only black bear and they seem more scared of us than we are of them. The 255gr seemed just fine for lions, but it still seemed weak for a big black bear. No data for that opinion, just a guess.

I know that 9mm 147gr truncated cone/flat point out-penetrated 230gr ACP loads (flat point FMJ) in phonebooks. The 45 had bigger "wound channels" if you can call it that, but the 9mm clearly penetrated farther. IIRC, twice as far. Same results in wood (iirc fir), but those tests aren't fur and bone.

I don't remember if I tried the 255gr hardcast, but I recall some tests of the 147gr where it penetrated better than 240gr JSP from a 44 magnum for the same type of informal test. A few years ago I had a dude in AK send me some info on tests that he and his buddies did on bear skulls. Whenever one of them shot a black bear or grizzly they would save the skull, put it against a log and shoot it with different handguns. He said that 147gr FMJ had no problems penetrating the skulls. That doesn't make the 9mm a bear stopper though.

Seems to me that both the 9mm and 45 ACP are better than nothing but absolute last ditch firearms for any bear. I think the bear spray would be my first choice, but if I ended up on the ground fighting I'd try to get that 9mm or 45 into the skull. For that role, it doesn't seem like either is better than the other. Good luck right?! Maybe offer the bear your leg as an appetizer/chew-toy, then put the muzzle to the ear and pull the trigger?!

Forgot to add that I recall Phil stating that a 44 is what his guides carried. I think his daughter carried a 357 and he felt confident that the right 357 bullet would penetrate a bear skull. You need to have the skill to use either effectively though. You may want to ask him to make sure that my memory is correct though.

A grizz in Denali was killed in self defense a year or 2 ago with a 45 ACP. I prefer at least a 45 Colt with 300 plus grain bullets in the 1300 FPS range but don't discount a 255 grain hard cast at 960 FPS or so out of a 45 ACP. That puts it in the same class as the black powder 45 colt the cowboys used in the day

Didn't say it wouldn't work, John.

Just saying, IMO, there are better choices readily available.

MM

No doubt, as I stated above my preferred minimum is the 45 Colt with 325 to 335 grain LBT hard cast in the 1300 FPS range, not everyones cup of tea. If the going gets tough then I want one of my 475's or 500's just a bigger hammer

If one was inclined to pack an autoloader, a 10mm would be a better choice than the ACP, and with hard bullets. A suitable revolver would be an even better choice, IMHO.

Phil would probably be packing "Ole Ugly", his Mauser .458 Win Mag' as back up on a griz hunt. He has a newer 9.3x62 M-70 in an Echold Legend stock that's lighter for easy carry. With the right projectile, that round would be pretty potent griz medicine.

DF

Why would a 10mm be better than a 45 ACP with 255 grain hard cast in the 960 FPS range. Have you ever tried them? They hit much harder than one might expect.

Have shot both the 10mm and .45 ACP with heavy, hard bullets. The 10mm has more velocity and should penetrate better.

No flies on the old Colt, as it's a proven warrior.

I think a big revolver would be better than either. I like full house .45 Colts with heavy, hard bullets. Not fast, but they hit like a freight train.

I don't own any, but the .454 Casull and some of the newer big rounds would be candidates.

IMHO,

DF

Edited to add a photo of one of my favorites and a good choice. A three screw Superblackhawk .45 Colt, line bored (from .44 Mag) by Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision, fitted with a 6" Shilen, long steel ejector housing and custom sights. This gun will handle the big bullets and is about as accurate as any .45 Colt I've ever fired.



Another option, a .45 Colt custom by Jim Stroh on a New Model Ruger Bisley. I like the SBH version better, but this one is no slouch.

Surely can't find any fault with that logic.........bears are nothing to play around with & there's enough grizzlies in & around Glacier to be of genuine concern.

MM

I tested the 45 ACP 255 grain load against the 44 mag 240 grain jacketed flat point winchester factory load a while back by shooting into 1 gallon milk jugs line up and the the load was not that far behind the 44 in my test. I also like the same bullet in the 45 Super at 1090 FPS. I would rather the larger diameter myself

The 525 grain in the 500 Linebaugh at 1090 FPS will out penetrate the 420 grain at 1383 FPS in the 475 Lienbaugh more speed does not always equate to more velocity. At least it did at the Linebaugh seminar that I attended. The same 525 grain bullet near 1600 FPS from a 50 Alaskan revolver penetrated the sanme 50"as it did at 1091 FPS

The 10mm may very well out penetrate the255 grain hard cast but the bullet diameter in less and thus the wound channel is as well

Speaking of the .45 Super, here's a .45 Win Mag in a Texas Longhorn Arms. It was Mr. Grover's version of Elmer's famous #5 and is a left handed version of the SAA pattern.

The .45 Win Mag cylinder was a bit more accurate than the .45 Colt cylinder and it's the one in the gun. Both cylinders are factory, the gun was reportedly special ordered like that.

This would be a nice option if it wasn't such a rare and valuable piece. In fact, I sold it to a collector for a lot more than it was worth to me.

DF

I would load either 230 gr FMJ-FP bullet from Nosler or Hornady to around 900 fps and practice like hell.

A bunch of DEEP holes punched in anything is gonna test their resolve and determination to continue the charge.

Would also practice shooting from a kneeled position firing off one knee, something like a locomotive coming at ya, you need to be inline with it, NOT trying to shoot down on an advancing threat.

Gunner