|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
A grizz charging on all fours has no vital areas exposed,, good luck! I always felt the head/brain were pretty vital.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,205 Likes: 65
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,205 Likes: 65 |
FNG is right. It won't hurt as much.
Look at a ballistics table, or if you don't believe that go shoot some wet telephone books with a .44 mag, .30-30 rifle and a .30-06 and a big pistol if you have one. Then compare that to a .45 acp. A .45 LC with new loads likes buffalo of Garrett would be much better. I like at least 3000 foot-pounds for humped bears. A .45 acp has more like 600-700. muzzle energy is a very poor judge of how effective a cartridge will be. A 223 rem has more muzzle energy than some of my 45 colt loads but I promise you the 223 is no match for what the colt can do in penetration. Test it for your self. Its been said numerous times, but I guess it bears repeating. Speed and energy do not kill, shot placement and penetration do!
Last edited by gunchamp; 06/03/13.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,166 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,166 Likes: 4 |
I used to live outside of Kalispell and would go to Glacier at least two or three times a week during the summer. I'd feel a lot better with my 1911 in 45 ACP on me then without a gun. The grizzlies tend to be a lot smaller than the Alaskan coastal browns, but they are still very tough and sometimes aggressive. Black bears kill much more easily. Bear spray is a good idea too ...
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,050 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,050 Likes: 2 |
carry the for two legged threats but get your self some good bear spray. you can empty a 45 into a griz and he will still kill you. spray will change his attitude and save you. been there and done that here in north Idaho. even if under the stress of an attach you hit what you are aiming at a 45 is waaaaay under powered for griz. they are a awesome life force and please do not under estimate their ability to absorb punishment. good hiking.
Last edited by deerstalker; 06/03/13.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228 |
I find it comical how we think we could hit a charging bear in the head with any handgun in the event it is necessary. Get real, i know could not. Adrenaline rush, heart rate, flee or fight would be overwhelming.whilei have not had the experience, i have two acquatainces who have. One watched the handgun bullets ripple thru the skin on the bears head, . Another said the time it took the bear to charge 40 yds was almost instantaneous.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
I find it comical how we think we could hit a charging bear in the head with any handgun in the event it is necessary. Get real, i know could not. Adrenaline rush, heart rate, flee or fight would be overwhelming.whilei have not had the experience, i have two acquatainces who have. One watched the handgun bullets ripple thru the skin on the bears head, . Another said the time it took the bear to charge 40 yds was almost instantaneous. Depends on distance, but yes, a head shot is attainable. They have a big ass head Most handgun loads would just hit the skull and do little, that's why there are bigger and more powerful options. I have a S&W 460 Magnum and my dad has a S&W 500 magnum, both will penetrate a griz skull with no question
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,517
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,517 |
really doesn't matter which. bullet placement is key. Make sure you get it square on your temple. Or your gonna feel a LOT of pain, quickly!
"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228 |
There are an amazing number of handgun shooting grizzly killers on this thread.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
There are an amazing number of handgun shooting grizzly killers on this thread. I think you're missing the point. This is no more than an internet exercise -- as virtually every discussion regarding defensive shooting is as well. However, I always carry in bear country, and I always practice to the extent possible, and it is much more intelligent to be prepared for a worst case scenario than just blowing it off with "you won't be able to hit what you are aiming at in the heat of a charge" attitude. You might be able to, and you might not, but I sure as hell will try with whatever I happen to have strapped to my hip. Many a charging animal have been stopped with a rifle, and I happen to believe -- at least in my case -- that I am able to bring a handgun into action faster than I can a rifle. But that's just me.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
To many people sell the 45 acp short for penetration..Check out these test off of Real Guns with the 45 acp and wet news print..It penetrates as well as some of the big boomers with the right bullet.34" in wet print is amazing penetration! Jayco
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,296 Likes: 6 |
There are an amazing number of handgun shooting grizzly killers on this thread. If charged a man has no choice in the matter, kneel on one knee inline with the bear and git to pumping him fulla lead, there is no other choice available. Gunner
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228 |
Whit,i have no doubt in your ability to shoot, but i am not missing your point, my point is just not yours. the majority of folks on any of these threads are not very experienced . Others as you ,are. I just so often see advice offered that does not serve the asker very well and may lead to dangerous expectations that are not reasonable in their case. Of course anyone will attempt to defend themselves to all extents available in any situation. Hitting a charging bear in the brain would require the same skill or luck level as hitting a walnut thrown at you. Same size same speed. .i just would not want anyone to think for one moment a comfort level in bear country be cause they beleive themselves to be proficient with a powerful handgun.
Last edited by foogle; 06/04/13.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,143 |
Whit, i am not missing your point, my point is just not yours. the majority of folks on any of these threads are not very experienced . Others are. I just so often see advice offered that does not serve the asker very well and may lead to dangerous expectations that are not reasonable in their case. Of course anyone will attempt to defend themselves to all extents available in any situation. Hitting a charging bear in the brain would require the same skill or luck level as hitting a walnut thrown at you. Same size same speed. .i just would not want anyone to think for one moment a comfort level in bear country be cause they beleive themselves to be proficient with a powerful handgun. I hear ya, however, comfort, confidence, and ultimately proficiency comes with extensive use of your chosen sidearm. It helps to know that your chosen bullet/load is effective on game. And no, my choice for a defensive sidearm in the field wouldn't be a .45 ACP or any semi-auto for that matter. For many, a handgun is something they strap on as an afterthought. Some of us (myself included) use revolvers as our primary hunting firearms, and I would venture a guess that guys who use them frequently as primaries have a higher level of confidence in not only their abilities, but in the effectiveness of their chosen firearm. I have found that those who cite muzzle energy figures typically have no handgun hunting experience, as they would know that these figures are marketing tools and really no indicator as to how a particular load/caliber/bullet combination will perform on flesh. To stop any charging animal is pretty much a CNS-hit only proposition. Many a charge has been stopped with a rifle and a handgun. It is doable. Easy? Not only no, but hell no, however, I reject the idea that my chances are nil if faced with a charging brownie. I don't disagree with you, I simply remain more optimistic.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228 |
I think we are more on the same page than either of us know... Godd shooting snd hunting to you .. Thanks for your thoughts
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
Have a 1911 in 45 acp that I plan on taking with me hiking around Glacier National Park as just-in-case bear protection.
Though I know it is not the caliber of choice it is what I have, that and a 9mm, so what round would you suggest using in case I need it?
Not to worry, I've already purchased and plan to have the rest of my family carry pepper spray, as will I so that option is covered. Am just thinking worst case scenario or as the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared." On topic,your best bet is a flat nosed bullet as Buffalo Bore sells in 230-250 grains.34" of penetration with the 230 grain FP is more than an '06 achieves in wet print and the 45-70 with jacketed bullets. Jayco
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
Whit, i am not missing your point, my point is just not yours. the majority of folks on any of these threads are not very experienced . Others are. I just so often see advice offered that does not serve the asker very well and may lead to dangerous expectations that are not reasonable in their case. Of course anyone will attempt to defend themselves to all extents available in any situation. Hitting a charging bear in the brain would require the same skill or luck level as hitting a walnut thrown at you. Same size same speed. .i just would not want anyone to think for one moment a comfort level in bear country be cause they beleive themselves to be proficient with a powerful handgun. I hear ya, however, comfort, confidence, and ultimately proficiency comes with extensive use of your chosen sidearm. It helps to know that your chosen bullet/load is effective on game. And no, my choice for a defensive sidearm in the field wouldn't be a .45 ACP or any semi-auto for that matter. For many, a handgun is something they strap on as an afterthought. Some of us (myself included) use revolvers as our primary hunting firearms, and I would venture a guess that guys who use them frequently as primaries have a higher level of confidence in not only their abilities, but in the effectiveness of their chosen firearm. I have found that those who cite muzzle energy figures typically have no handgun hunting experience, as they would know that these figures are marketing tools and really no indicator as to how a particular load/caliber/bullet combination will perform on flesh. To stop any charging animal is pretty much a CNS-hit only proposition. Many a charge has been stopped with a rifle and a handgun. It is doable. Easy? Not only no, but hell no, however, I reject the idea that my chances are nil if faced with a charging brownie. I don't disagree with you, I simply remain more optimistic. Exactly which is why if I am in the woods with anything bigger or meaner than a deer, I have a wheel gun on my side. My answer may not be relevant to the OP question, but bottom line, if I am in Griz country, I want the biggest and baddest rifle AS well as handgun I can get so if by luck or God's grace, you hit that charging Griz.....his ass will go down instead of getting further pissed off
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the .45acp, but I would also LOVE to see it be truly effective against a griz who is charging
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
I will stick with large bore lever action or bolt action rifles for big bears.
I would like to see some other common calibers and their penetration to compare to the .45.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,166 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,166 Likes: 4 |
There are an amazing number of handgun shooting grizzly killers on this thread. Not me! I'm fast on my feet ...
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,205 Likes: 65
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,205 Likes: 65 |
There are an amazing number of handgun shooting grizzly killers on this thread. I think you're missing the point. This is no more than an internet exercise -- as virtually every discussion regarding defensive shooting is as well. However, I always carry in bear country, and I always practice to the extent possible, and it is much more intelligent to be prepared for a worst case scenario than just blowing it off with "you won't be able to hit what you are aiming at in the heat of a charge" attitude. You might be able to, and you might not, but I sure as hell will try with whatever I happen to have strapped to my hip. Many a charging animal have been stopped with a rifle, and I happen to believe -- at least in my case -- that I am able to bring a handgun into action faster than I can a rifle. But that's just me. Well said sir
|
|
|
|
63 members (10gaugemag, 35, 6mmbrfan, 7mm_Loco, 907brass, 9 invisible),
14,028
guests, and
1,120
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,195,229
Posts18,544,001
Members74,060
|
Most Online21,066 May 26th, 2024
|
|
|
|