Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .45 ACP for bear protection - what bullet?

Whit,i have no doubt in your ability to shoot, but i am not missing your point, my point is just not yours. the majority of folks on any of these threads are not very experienced . Others as you ,are. I just so often see advice offered that does not serve the asker very well and may lead to dangerous expectations that are not reasonable in their case. Of course anyone will attempt to defend themselves to all extents available in any situation. Hitting a charging bear in the brain would require the same skill or luck level as hitting a walnut thrown at you. Same size same speed. .i just would not want anyone to think for one moment a comfort level in bear country be cause they believe themselves to be proficient with a powerful handgun.

Today I performed a little penetration test with the 45 ACP and the Buffalo Bore 255 grain hast cast load.. The load is advertised at 925 FPS

tradmark has stated over and over on another forum that "it is about the bullet" and I totaly I agree it is about the bullet

The load and the weapon




The test media waa comprised of 11 gallon milk jugs filled with water



The results the 255 grain hard cast penetrated and exited 9 jugs




The exit in the lwer corner of jug #9 caused the bullet to miss jugs 10 & 11





There is no doubt that this load has enough penetration for a 500+ pound Bear and in my opinion exit an Elk with a rib cage shot placement

Jwp, where did hit the bear and was this a hunting situation or were you being charged or otherwise threatened. Thanks

Some may remember the study done a few years ago concerning the effectiveness of guns vs bear spray. Between the rifle and handgun it was found the handgun was more effective at saving a person from being killed or severly mauled than a rifle. The reason being is because the handgun was small and could be used if the bear had a person down where the rifle would have been useless. Now if you could hit the charging bear with the rifle it is a no brainer which is more effective.

A friend went through a bear protection class in Alaska a few years ago. He had to face a fake bear cutout as it raced and bounced at him from close range. He used his Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. He has always been an excellent shot with a rifle, but I don't know with a pistol. Anyway, he missed every shot and missed badly. He said it was almost like a real charge because he didn't know when it would happen, but had to hit the thing after being surprised and having a bear charge him even though fake.

Buffalo Bore has a "Technical Article" on its website that has helped me tremendously in trying to understand all the bear handgun stuff.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108

One of the things I've read elsewhere that made sense to me is that you wouldn't want to use bear spray when already in contact with the bear or from within a hammock or tent/tarp set up. Also, you get more "engagements" with a handgun (by simply carrying more ammo) than spray unless you're actually carrying spare spray cans.

It's "only black bears" by me so I feel more than OK with a hot 45 ACP.

Buffalo Bore has a "Technical Article" on its website that has helped me tremendously in trying to understand all the bear handgun stuff.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=108

One of the things I've read elsewhere that made sense to me is that you wouldn't want to use bear spray when already in contact with the bear or from within a hammock or tent/tarp set up. Also, you get more "engagements" with a handgun (by simply carrying more ammo) than spray unless you're actually carrying spare spray cans.

It's "only black bears" by me so I feel more than OK with a hot 45 ACP.

I always marvel at the "just black bear" commentary most make (this isn't directed at you alukban), but I've seen smallish black bears dismantle packs of dogs with little effort. I would hate to be on the receiving end of any black bear, large or small!

That article (I believe it was written by Tim at BB) is an excellent summary, although I would quibble with Tim on one or two points.

First thing, I do not agree with his assertion that a 9mm or 38 Spl is adequate for defense against bears. I've heard this from other people in the past, and it's based on the very true assumption that these cartridges have enough power to penetrate a bear's skull if fired from a favorable angle. Unfortunately, if you're close enough to be shooting a bear in the head with a 9mm you're probably in deep [bleep] already... so your ability to aim precisely is going to be in the toilet, and the bear may not give you a favorable angle to work with. If you can't get a favorable angle, contrary to Tim's assertion, bullets can and do fail to penetrate the skull and tunnel harmlessly under the skin. You can lessen the chance of that happening by using a hard blunt meplat non-HP bullet, but a lot of autopistols won't feed LBT-profile type bullets reliably.

Second thing I disagree with is the notion that one should shoot any bear that shows aggressive tendencies. Tim asserts that any bear that shows signs of aggression is likely to attack a sooner or later, so it's his obligation to pre-emptively kill this "dangerous" bear. But bears make displays of aggression for a variety of reasons, and most of the time you have no clue what the bear's motive might be. A mama bear popping her teeth and bluff-charging you because she's got newborn cubs hiding in the bush behind her is only doing what she's evolved to do, for instance. Kill her for being a good mama, and you destroy not only her life, but the lives of her cubs. Similarly, a grizzly lying on a carcass is going to make aggressive displays (as long as you don't pop up on him at very close distance, in which case he's just gonna maul your ass), which he is again what he's evolved to do. 99% of his time is spent eating other stuff that he doesn't have an instinctive need to protect, so the likelihood that he's going to attack another person in the future isn't high.

Gary Shelton's books on bear attacks are IMHO a must-read for people who spend time in bear country. I had a lot of knowledge about bear behavior and how to avoid bear attacks prior to reading Shelton's books, and it took me 40 years of backcountry experience as well as training in bear behavior when I was doing field research in undergrad to learn what I knew, but Shelton's books doubled or tripled my knowledge.

As you correctly point out, bear spray has its limitations such as being useless in a tent or close-quarters situation, but firearms have their limitations too. Particularly autoloading pistols, in my view.

My practice when travelling in bear country is to carry one or two cans of bear spray in holsters on my belt as well as a large-caliber double-action revolver. (I don't carry a rifle or shotgun unless I'm hunting, any more, but for most of my life up in Canada I carried a 12-gauge slug gun or a rifle because handguns are so restricted up there.) Moreover, every person in my party is advised to carry at least one can of bear spray, and a revolver if they're competent with it. Knowing when bear spray is appropriate or not is critical information, and knowing when shooting is appropriate is likewise critical information.

Shelton's books will provide that information.

[quote=DocRocket]
I agree with you almost 100%. The tiny quibble I have is that I agree with Tim. Why? Because any "black" bear that sticks around after our initial encounter has got eating on their mind - and IMO they need to die from high-speed lead poisoning. Mama will get the cubs out pronto and it will be pretty obvious what she is up to. But if she's learned to raid camps then I think she needs to suffer the same fate - cubs or not.

By the way, the grizzly sow that killed the sleeping camper on the edge of Yellowstone only weighed about 220lbs, and she had two cubs. She was particularly nasty in that she was hunting people.

I use a hammock and I always wonder what sort of a burrito I am to a bear. I've taken to bring a dog with me for an extra set of eyes and ears - I've got one female lab that is very alert. Problem is that I can't take her into Wolf country as she has a habit of wandering outside of camp a bit too far. I've had wolves come within 50 yards at night and they don't take kindly to other dogs at all.

Shelton's books (3 of them) are invaluable for learning enough bear behavior to know when to shoot.

It is not that hard from this discussion to tell which people have been around bears from the ones that have not.

All these "bear killin' with a handgun" threads always seem to leave me with the same impression; I think I'd rather take advice from someone who has 20 years of experience doing it instead of someone who has of a years worth of experience practiced 20 times.