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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RoninPhx, those that actually shoot them know what you are posting, you are definitely one of the enlightened ones.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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For all you doubting buttheads from puzzy states like PA and TX, I worked in SE Alaska and saw bears everyday for several months. Some of them had paws the size of dinner plates. The only person I ever saw in the field was a US Fish and Wildife agent and he was required to carry a .375 H and H if he got out of his boat.
All of this discussion about .45 acps and .357 mags is quite humorous, but a waste of time. If you are going to question someone's else's experience, next time get some of your own. Guess I remember why I have you on ignore. Hostile know it all! You're arguing with some very experienced handgun hunters too, but it looks like you know more than them, huh? Read the OP first post. He didnt ask what the best caliber for bear defense was. In that case, no one in their right mind would tell him a 45 acp over everything else. He said that it was all he had and would it work in a pinch. It has killed bears so the answer is if thats all he has its better than nothing. With the right load it will penetrate to the vitals. I dont know why I'm even answering you back because you have showed your true colors and are looking to argue and not learn.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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gunchamp you are spot on, no one is saying that the 45 ACP is the best choice, but with the correct bullet/load it can and will work.
My personal bottom line is a 45 Colt with a 325 LFN or 335 WFN (even better IMHO) at 1300 or so FPS. A475 or 500 doesn't hurt anything, but a255 grain hard cast that is capable of penetrating 9 gallon mil jugs full of water is workable. That is more penetration than a lot of 44 mag bullet, not all but more than some
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Regular
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else.
A .45 Colt LC is a huge improvement.
In year's past people brought rifles.
Last edited by ppine; 06/06/13.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
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Campfire Tracker
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If you take the 34" the 45 acp did In wet paper and compare it to the linebaugh test,in wet paper,you will see it does quite well compared to other bigger boomers.
Better than I would have ever thought.
Jayco
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else.
A .45 Colt LC is a huge improvement.
In year's past people brought rifles. You didn't answer my question. Not being combative, simply inquiring.
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Not sure what pistol/revolver or caliber he used, not saying that it's optimal, but it seemed to work. http://www.adn.com/2011/09/09/2057762/soldotna-officer-kills-bear-in.html
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else. So, you would suggest that he bring his 9mm instead? Not the choice I would make, but based on your "enlightened" status of having spent a couple months in AK....... 
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Ranger
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else.
A .45 Colt LC is a huge improvement.
In year's past people brought rifles. For conversation, BB's 255gr +P 45 ACP load exceeds the standard 45 Colt 255gr load.
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In a situation where you can carefully aim and shoot a big game animal such as an elk or deer, what percent of the time does the animal drop in its tracks, and what percent will it run 50-100 yards before it gives up the ghost? For me, at least half the animals that I have killed have run some distance before expiring. The last elk I killed had a quarter sized exit hole from his chest and he pumped out a lot of blood, but still ran a good 100+ yards.
I don't think my experience is that unusual. So what is it that gives people the idea that shooting a small target (the CNS of a bear), moving very fast towards you, while you are in a very hurried situation to say the least, will result in a good chance to killing the bear before he gets to you?
I think people that have killed a bear in a hunting situation may be confusing that with a true self defense scenario.
I'll be in the Yellowstone country next month and I'll be carrying my model629 because I like to carry it and 911 doesn't work very well there, but no way I won't have my can of pepper spray as well.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else.
A .45 Colt LC is a huge improvement.
In year's past people brought rifles. again this is not what the opening post asked. He did not ask what is better, he asked the following
Have a 1911 in 45 acp that I plan on taking with me hiking around Glacier National Park as just-in-case bear protection.
Though I know it is not the caliber of choice it is what I have, that and a 9mm, so what round would you suggest using in case I need it?
Not to worry, I've already purchased and plan to have the rest of my family carry pepper spray, as will I so that option is covered. Am just thinking worst case scenario or as the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared."
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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In a situation where you can carefully aim and shoot a big game animal such as an elk or deer, what percent of the time does the animal drop in its tracks, and what percent will it run 50-100 yards before it gives up the ghost? For me, at least half the animals that I have killed have run some distance before expiring. The last elk I killed had a quarter sized exit hole from his chest and he pumped out a lot of blood, but still ran a good 100+ yards.
I don't think my experience is that unusual. So what is it that gives people the idea that shooting a small target (the CNS of a bear), moving very fast towards you, while you are in a very hurried situation to say the least, will result in a good chance to killing the bear before he gets to you?
I think people that have killed a bear in a hunting situation may be confusing that with a true self defense scenario.
I'll be in the Yellowstone country next month and I'll be carrying my model629 because I like to carry it and 911 doesn't work very well there, but no way I won't have my can of pepper spray as well. I think you're missing the point. What you describe in the latter part of your post isn't a matter of the chosen firearm/caliber/load/bullet effectiveness on bear or any other animal, but a matter of the effectiveness of the shooter to get it done when the pressure is on. No arguing the difficulty of that task. However, the argument here is whether or not, the .45 ACP, when loaded appropriately, is capable of delivering the goods if placed well. That's a different argument altogether as far as I am concerned. A still hunted bear is indeed a different animal than one alerted and pumped on fear and adrenaline. We hunt black bear every year with dogs, and those animals are scared, pumped, adrenalized, pissed, and agitated. Again, a different animal.
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My post said it was the wrong caliber and bring something else.
A .45 Colt LC is a huge improvement.
In year's past people brought rifles. For conversation, BB's 255gr +P 45 ACP load exceeds the standard 45 Colt 255gr load. That load is a good woods load. I have fired it numerous times and it is definetly stout. If a 45 acp is all I had that's what it would be stoked with in bear country.
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Have a 1911 in 45 acp that I plan on taking with me hiking around Glacier National Park as just-in-case bear protection.
Though I know it is not the caliber of choice it is what I have, that and a 9mm, so what round would you suggest using in case I need it?
Not to worry, I've already purchased and plan to have the rest of my family carry pepper spray, as will I so that option is covered. Am just thinking worst case scenario or as the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared." Whatever would penetrate a grizzly's skull and that you can shoot accurately. Make sure it feeds an functions in your 1911 too.
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Soooo... anyone know what velocity you could expect from the 255gr BB ammo when shot from a Springfield XDs? 
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I got right around 850fps in a compact xdm I had.
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If you look at the anatomy of a bear skull. Penetration may be difficult because of the steep slope the the skull. When he is looking at you the slope of the skull is very close to parellel with the bullets path and may only deflect.. This thread needs to be sorted as to the hunting application and self defense application of handguns of any caliber.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
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According to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffered injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries.
Other researchers have come to the same conclusions. According to the USFWS, Canadian bear biologist / bear conflict expert Dr. Stephen Herrero, a person�s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used. Also, in a study published in the April 2008 Journal of Wildlife Management, Tom Smith examined "The Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska." The study showed that in 72 cases where people used bear pepper spray to defend themselves from bears, the spray stopped bears 92 percent of the time and 98 percent of the people involved were uninjured.
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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I got right around 850fps in a compact xdm I had. Thank you 
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I usually stay out of these threads because they tend to "wander" a bit, but here is a situation where a .357 saved the day against a full grown Montana grizzly. I'll bet a .45 ACP with decent ammo would have done the same. Neither would be a sane choice for deliberately hunting grizzly, but either would be better protection in an emergency than a dirty look or a nasty remark. Also, either would be easier to carry and handier to use in close quarters than a single action BFR that weighs 4 1/2 pounds. ![[Linked Image]](http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/wildhobbybobby/1000237799_zpse6f2c404.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/wildhobbybobby/1000237797_zps8041f63e.jpg)
Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 06/07/13.
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