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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm down to about 2"s in a 55 gal oil drum, my Sharps Rifle bullet test will begin soon. Gunner
Trump Won!
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Campfire Ranger
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Yer gonna have to put that drum on end if you want to catch one of them bullets. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yer gonna have to put that drum on end if you want to catch one of them bullets. Ed LOL, yeah, that's the way I do it, full of water and banded down tight. Have caught: 458 Win Mag 500 gr Woodleigh 505 Gibbs 600 gr Woodleigh 500 Nitro 570 gr TSX 577 Nitro 750 gr TSX All bullets caught left a nice dognot in the bottom of the drum, I'm gonna chit bricks if the 520 gr Gov bullet from my Shiloh 45-70 punches clean through. Gunner
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You'll be ready for Africa. You using the steel drums or the plastic ones? I have wondered if the plastic ones would flex, therefore slow the bullet down and reduce total penetration. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Using steel drums, the 'hydraulic effect' of the 577 Nitro is mind numbing, at the shot [25 yards] the small threaded cap pulled it's threads and went dancing by on my right, the main banded lid blew, drum split at the seam and the bottom had a dognot in it you could nearly put your fist in. Can't wait to see what the 520 gr GB in the 45-70 will do when powered to 1200 fps by Holy Black. Gunner
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Campfire Ranger
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the 577 Nitro is mind numbing, Gunner Nuff said... I DO want to see that beast one of these days. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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the 577 Nitro is mind numbing, Gunner Nuff said... I DO want to shoot that beast from the bench one of these days. Ed Fixt, and sure. LOL Gunner
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Campfire Ranger
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A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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video of gunner and his 577 versus a huge chunk of sandstone
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Outfitter
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Back the Original thread. I have see a few true bullet failures; the most spectacular of which was a 130 grain Bronze point out of a 270 on a calf elk. It knocked her down but she bounced right back up. The total wound depth didn't exceed 2 1/2" This has kinda jaded me against the 270 ever since and this happened in 1975.
I have seen several 270 and 258 caliber X bullets and Failsafes fail to expand at all. One punched clear through two animals. Never had a problem with the 30 caliber mono bullets.
I have also seen a Federal low-shok fail to penetrate the rib cage on a cow elk from a 308. If you are around enough killing, you are bound to see some weird stuff. As a result, I never used the Federal stuff again nor a Remington Bronze point (good luck finding one)
As for Bergers, I have seen a LOT of them Exit. If you are shooting 7 and 30 caliber heavy bullets, they will almost always exit on deer in my experience. They still kill well but a 180 out of a 7mm is pretty hard to keep in the chest cavity of a deer. A 210 is nearly impossible.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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this is eviltwin with i believe gunners 500 nitro, dont think its the 577 though he did shoot it too...
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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medicman--Was the 500 grain bullet you used on the moose the big round nosed Government bullet? In penetration tests that bullet and my 511 grain round nosed paper patched bullet were the best for penetration of the bullets we have tested. There was little if any difference between them and they seemed to give 10 to 15 percent better penetration than the flatnosed bullets.
In either case, in my experience a properly placed 500 grain bullet almost always results in a DRT or an animal on the ground within 50 yards. This is an interesting statistic as in the "smokeless world" flat nosed solids out-penetrate round nose bullets by a considerabel margin.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Regular
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jorge--I have wondered about this too. I suspect that at the higher smokeless velocities the RN solids tend to veer from a straight line and yaw and ultimately tumble, whereas the FN bullets do not. At the lower black powder velocities the RN gives straight line penetration without yaw, hence more penetration. Notice I said SUSPECT, as I have no proof of this, only that the RN bullet is the penetration champ in my Sharps, and always gives straight line penetration in an animal.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well it is certainly a fascinating subject.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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I have always wondered what effect rifle twist, bullet weight, and bullet speed in these cast bullets impart on the performance. On regular soft point ammo the mushroom can affect performance of penetration at the various speeds but the cast bullet wouldn't add that factor.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'll tell you this much for sure, given proper bullet construction, the more velocity the more penetration, then again how much is enough?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hey Rattler, I should get that caster to make me up some 'Hard Balls' for that 8 Bore and seat em over 400 gr of FFG and see how they penetrate. Wouldn't think expansion would be an issue with the 8 Bore, hell, it's .825" when it gets there. Gunner
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Last fall, my neighbor shot a little spike Whitetail with his .308Win at about 40 yds. He was using 150gr Rem Core Lokts, just as he has done for the last forty years. The deer stopped, perfectly broadside and Jim, in a ground blind, shot him halfway up the body, just behind the shoulder. At the shot the deer instantly dropped, then jumped back up and disappeared into the thick brush. Thirty minutes of tracking led to the deer, now dead.
So, realistically, the bullet didn't fail in its intended purpose. Technically, it DID fail since it blew up on a rib going in. The jacket was trapped just inside the ribcage and a small fragment weighing roughly 40gr was found along the bullets track just behind the left ear. That bullet had entered in a path that should have gone straight through, across the thinnest part of the chest cavity, and exited through the ribs on the left side. Instead, it turned, jellied one lung, missed the heart and major arteries, and traveled up through the neck along the spine, exiting about two inches behind the left ear. Strange things happen!
Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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I agree but straight line penetration is the key when shooting at game. The bullet encounters various obstacles along the way. I have shot a 7STW in game with a 140 SAF that showed a difference in straight line penatraion over 160 grain bullets. It was a faster load but the twist I am sure played a role as well. The little SAF also has a different frontal area on expansion as opposed the the fail safe bullet I'm comparing to. I will never have the time or inclination to see what variable has the biggest role, twist, bullet weight, or speed. For sure these variable must balance with each other but twist has always seemed to be the most important. Straight line performance based on how fast or slow a bullet is pushed at a given weight in a particular twist barrel interests me
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Campfire Ranger
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I think you're onto something there. I believe Muledeer has done some writing on "magic" velocites, and there have been some other writers and ballisticians trying to understand it as well.
Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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