Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting The Paradox Pack Thread

Rundown on the last week....

I flew out to SLC for Outdoor Retailer. Kevin met us there. We had an eventful few days at the show. We sourced some quality hardware, met with Sea to Summit about offering dry bags with our packs, and we even stopped and spoke with Dana Gleason of Mystery Ranch for a bit.

We worked in a couple of day hikes in the Wasatch, then back to Colorado.

Kevin, myself, and my wife climbed Mt. Sneffels (14,150).




The next day Kevin, his son, and I got up at 3am for a scouting trip. We saw some beautiful country and some bighorn rams.





Somewhere during the week we may or may not have seen a crapload of elk....

Congrats on getting out of the humidity for awhile!!

Something extra we've been working on.....



We got this idea from the removable top bars on external frame packs, and it adapts very well to our system. This makes the pack excellent for heavy loads, and not too big/tall for UL backpacking, busting brush, and most Eastern hunting uses. It is both a great daypack and a great heavy hauler.

Pricing on the extendable frame will be out soon. We will upgrade folks who have already ordered for free (if they wish) as a "Thank You".

I welcome thoughts or questions.

Thanks for the good clear videos and good explanation of how the pack frame extension attaches.

I have a question which will reveal my ignorance: Why is the extrension needed to carry heavier loads?

I'm pretty strongly sure that I would prefer the short version without any extension. It looks like it would do anything I want. I've packed over 100 lbs of meat for miles and don't plan to do that anymore.

The taller frame gives a steeper load lifter angle, plus the higher compression strap allows you to position the bulk of the load higher between your shoulders which affects center of gravity less.

Okanagan, if I remember right you normally pack loads with hip belt unfastened? Or am I off base? If that is right then frame height is irrelevant for you, unless our belt works for you where others don't.

Good memory! Yes, I don't use hip belts much. Your answer makes sense. FWIW I'm 5'10" (or was when I started backpacking years ago. )

I have always preferred heavy loads to be centered high and close to the body, even slightly over the base of the neck on reasonable ground. Somewhat lower and still tight is better on steep rough stuff but a man isn't wise to pack a really heavy load on such ground. If I get the load too high on uncertain footing it is prone to throw my balance one way or the other.

Your comment nailed it: Center of gravity is the critical factor for the load and even more so for the center of gravity combo of man and load.

You have really thought through this pack. Wishing you the best with your business side.

I think the frame extension is genius for a hunting pack. In western Washington we deal with a lot of brush,and I personally hate any part of the pack above my shoulders when hunting. Will the size of the frame extension (how short you can make the bag) be something we can customize?

The bag has two connection points a lower (for use without extensions) and a higher (for use with the extensions). When the extensions are not in use, the top few inches of the bag become effectively an extension collar. Compression and everything else moves down accordingly. The Drawstring bag is optimized for the higher frame height (so the drawstring is higher than the end of the frame) but it will work fine at the lower height. The Roll Top bag, the closure height really doesn't matter. Both pack bags have a bit of play and adjustment within a couple inches, so if you actually wanted to trim your frame to a certain height within an inch or two you certainly could.

To note, I find a 26" frame is fine for me up to 130 lbs and I am 6'1". I can use a packbag at it's standard attachment on the 26" frame due to the play in the attachment. For me, 24" is about the minimum to get any lift at lower load limits perhaps to 40 or 50 lbs. I could go with a 24" with extension and it will work perfectly fine, however the 26 is a nice mix for me. The hipbelt works very well, even when it is not centered perfectly on the illiacs, so I can just increase torso of the the harness and drop the belt a couple inches if I need to and function fine at lower weights. For me either are acceptable. I'd prefer frame extensions and being perfectly centering on the iliacs for busting brush, but I hunt a lot more open country and can be fine with 26. The extensions work great, and this is just a demonstration of the flexibility. If I feel 26" is to long, I'll cut it to 24 and use the extension for the heavier loads.

Edited, added to Note example

forkedhorn,

The extensions will be standardized at 4", and the frames are standard at 28" with extension option frames able to adjust from 24-28".

I will add a note though....the way the pack rides on your body is extremely adjustable. The hip belt has two grommets which allow you to raise or lower the belt. So, I can make that 24" frame ride like a 22" frame or even a 26" frame with just a couple changes in suspension.

If I was day hunting in brush I would want the frame low at shoulder level and I can do that. I can also raise it up for packing more weight.

A side note- last week I hauled a 20 something pound climbing treestand plus a 50 lb sandbag on the frame for a mile with the frame in its short configuration. That ~75 lb awkward load is the upper limit of what I want to haul without the extensions. It did fine but would have been more comfortable with extensions in.

I think my turning point will be in the 50-60 lb range. Below that I'd prefer the shorter frame, above that and I will prefer the extensions.

Sorry for more questions, but I'm looking for the "perfect" pack for me. I look at packs to be able to do 3 things, haul my gear in, haul my gear out with the addition of an animal, and be able to use as a day pack for hunting. I feel like many packs can do two of these things well, but not all 3. For me, the ability to use as a hunting pack is the most important as that is how it will be used most the time. When used as a hunting pack, I want it to be narrow and short. I don't want anything catching on branches, etc. It also needs to be quiet with no annoying squeaks. When I am lucky enough to take an animal, I want to be able to convert my pack to a hauler with out needing to go back to camp for more parts.
So, even with the 4 inch extensions, this will probably still be too tall for my liking as a hunting pack. Do you think it would be possible for me to modify the standard frame to have 10 inch extensions (18 - 28). I imagine I could come up with a way to connect the extensions to the frame easily enough.
Also, how wide is the bottom part of the frame and is this adjustable at all?
Thanks

That much variance is not possible. I don't mean to question you , but how tall are you ? A 24 inch frame does not come more than a couple inches above me and I am 6'1" . The frame is narrow at the top, so really the frame will only hit something if your ears are hitting it. The Day Talon is 18" so that is a good low profile solution.

You're a good 5 inches taller than me, so yes 24" will stick up a long way. I have no interest in using the day talon without the frame (or at least part of it) since that defeats the purpose of being able to transform a good hunting pack into a load hauler once an animal is down.
I guess my question is "why isn't that much variance possible". Is it just because of how the harness attaches to the frame? In daypack mode, the frame wouldn't really need to do anything as I'd only be carrying about 20lbs.

I'm not sure if it will stick up that much despite the height difference. Chances are your torso is not 5 inches less, more than likely an inch or two.

Anyway to answer your question, the top of the frame and bottom of the frame are essentially in encasements. There is a gap between them that allows this flexibility, however there needs to be some play in between them for torso adjustments etc. The minimum, they could probably be would be 20 or 21 inches just due to how pieces fit together and needing a little space between the encasements and to allow extensions to fit on etc. Now you can probably get the frame to not extend beyond your shoulders, but it would require the hipbelt being dropped a bit so it doesn't fit directly over the illiacs. If you are not trying to obtain shoulder lift then the hipbelt is really only for stability anyway so dropping it a bit isn't much of an issue. It does still support a load even when it is a little low, just not as well.

Make sense ?

Forkedhorn,

So you're 5'8"? I bet your torso is still 16-17" because my wife's is 15.5 and she's 5'5" with a very short torso. I think that by raising the belt up in relation to the frame and using the standard 24" frame you will be just fine.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone about what will or wont fit me (16.5 inch torso by the way). I just know what I like. For hunting, I prefer a pack with nothing sticking up over my shoulders. Having the pack stick up a bit may not be a big deal for some, but I hunt in a lot of brush in western Washington. I also ride my mountain bike into areas to elk hunt. It's a pain in the neck having something behind my head.
My daypack/hunting pack sits about 3 inches below my shoulders and works great for hunting. However, it won't pack squat and requires a trip back to the truck before hauling out any game. For my backpack hunting, I have a modified golite bag that has about a 25" frame. The pack works great for hauling in my gear, ok for hauling it out, and ok for hunting but can get annoyint at times with the frame sticking up. I really noticed it this year while trying to belly up to an edge to peak over at some deer.
I was just hoping that this pack had the potential to become a perfect pack for me. Without actually looking at the pack, I'm still not sure why I couldn't find a way to make it work. Can the belt and harness be worn wthout the frame? Not that I want to wear it that way, but if it can, then I'd think there would be a lot of possibilities as far as frame extensions, and breaking down the frame for use when needed.
I'm sure the pack is top notch, but I'm just trying to find something (for me) that will separate it from some of the other high end hunting packs on the market. Many packs compress to narrow and decrease volume, but not many have the ability to be shortened.

We are having a special on a less expensive combination. It is an Evo, a 4800 Roll Top and a Base Talon. Total capacity ~ 5800 CI and weight is under 3.5 lbs

Paradox Packs 4800 Roll Top and Base Talon Combo

Pack is complete Stone Gray only and Base Talon is Black

The Paradox Labor Day Sale:

We've got four combos on special, and if you order on or before Labor day then we will guarantee delivery by October 3rd, just in time for rifle season in most places.

You can see the combos by clicking the specials tab on:

Lightweight Backpacks


Evo / Stone Gray 4800 / Black Base Talon - $449

• Includes Frame Extensions
• Capacity 5800 ci
• Weight 3 lbs 8 oz

Evo / Multicam 4800 / Multicam Base Talon - $479

• Includes Frame Extensions
• Capacity 5800 ci
• Weight 3 lbs 10 oz

Evo / 6300 / Base Talon - starting at $519

• Includes Frame Extensions
• Capacity 7300 ci
• Weight 3 lbs 15 oz Gray, 4 lbs 4 oz Multicam

Evo / 6300 / Day Talon - starting at $599

• Includes Frame Extensions
• Capacity 7300 ci
• Weight 4 lbs 5 oz Gray, 4 lbs 10 oz Multicam

The 4800 in Stone Gray in action with a Black VX21 Base Talon.