Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting .264 Winchester Magnum, 140 A-Max, WC-872

Looks like you've done well! I've been playing with the .264 for a while. Tested at least 7 powders in it for velocity mostly. Always have had some difficulty making it shoot well, but I think it's because I would try to get the Nth degree of velocity out of it.

Unlike kutenay, I haven't been able to get the speed he says with the 140 grain bullets unless I'm using the SLOWEST burning powder like WC-872

I do remember with the 129 SST and W-780 some velocities up around 3300. Never loaded it for accuracy with that combo though.

My approach is to shoot the highest BC bullet as fast as possible (with accuracy of course) and to do that, the WC-872 was the only powder I have tried that gives over 3200 with the 140's. The RL33 is supposedly the same burn rate as Retumbo, with which others have had success, but it's supposed to be formulated like RL17 and give higher velocities. I think that RL50 may be good to try as well, but the WC872 works and only costs around 40$ for an 8# jug. Haven't tested it for temperature stability but have heard it's finicky. Seems to do what I want it to though

My Western Powders burn chart shows RL-25 and Retumbo on the same line; RL-33 is reportedly slower than RL-25. I understand it's made in Switzerland by Nitrochemie, like RL-17. How progressive it is, as compared to RL-17, I don't know. I don't think it's been worked with by enough people for any conclusions. And all the data from Alliant is for the .338 Lapua, nothing for any other round.

DF

with a 264 I disagree DONOT shoot 5 shot groups. there is no point in that other than to help destroy your barrel. 5 shots quickly from a 264 is quite a bit of stress to put on your barrel. the solution is just shoot a couple more 3 shot groups to verify. you will never need more than 3 shots in the field and with a 264 and that much heat there is probably enough heat to be changing things.

I agree and several guys I have known and shot with over the years have also had P-64 "Westerners", which all seem to shoot "bugholes" and fast. I tend to shoot " 2 shot" groups to get my sight-in where I can then go with 3 shots per to check for best accuracy.

The P-64-70 tubes are sts and seem to last quite well, but, no point in burning out the leade as these are fairly costly to re-barrel and once you have one "tuned", best to just keep it for shooting at game over great distances, IMHO.

Yeah, I would never shoot 5 shot strings with such a round, not at least while working up loads. I may, after adequate cooling, shoot 5 shot groups with a load I thought has promise.

For my use, 140 VLD's at 3,000 fps in a very good rifle with a high quality turret scope, is all I need. That extra 150 or even 200 fps comes at too great a cost, at least for me.

The 6.5-284, in my experience, is so much easier to load for than the .264 WM, that I doubt I'll ever own another .264 WM.

IMHO,

DF

both 264's I had were problem guns speed and accuracy never came together. I think the long VLD's don't do well after a certain speed level. a 6.5-284 running 140's at 2950 ish is as fast as I think you can get good accuracy in most cases out of those bullets. I had dreams of a long jevelin like bullet like a 140 vld running out of my barrel at or in excess of 3200 fps with .5 MOA accuracy. burned through a lot of powder and bullets trying to find it. never did.

Well, as you can see here, a .264 Win that shoots bullets at 3230 at 1/2 MOA is exactly what I have. You may not have used the right powder to get the potential out of the round.

The problem with the .264 is the fact that no new load data for the new, modern powders that really make the .264 shine has been published.

Mule Deer wrote an article for Handloader with updated load data for the .264 which was good, but still I think you'll find that the cartridge will perform better with slower powders than those he tested. There is some data for US-869 (a currently produced very slow powder made by Hodgdon) on one of the bullet manufacturer's websites, but IME, even slower powders work better

2,950 fps was the ceiling for speed while maintaining accuracy, until I switched to RL-17. With that powder, I lost accuracy and started seeing pressure signs at 3,100 fps, got solid performance with great ES's and no pressure issues at 3,000 fps and that's where she runs to this day.

To me 3,000 fps is about optimal for a 6.5mm, 140 gr. VLD. With a good turret, I can do what I need to do as far as I need to be shooting. Where I hunt, I don't need 7-800 yd. capacity and if I did, I'd go to a larger round.

DF

For mine, 65 grains of 7828 under a 140 AMAX gave the best accuracy I was able to get. Slower powders yet might maybe give more speed but gave up some accuracy.

Tom

does 12 powders sound like enough?? problem was I would get a great grouping in one type of condition then the condition would change and the groups would go to 1.25 moa

I think Rick just demonstrated that the long VLDs don't need to be relegated to sub-3,000fps speeds.

My point was that even if you try 100 powders all with faster burn rates than what is optimal for the .264, you haven't used the right powder.

The .264 has an 82 grain capacity. If you are using powders that show pressure at 65 grains, the case fill and velocity will be anemic. It's also about 79% case fill.

WC-872 gives good case fill. I loaded the ladder all the way to 80 grains, but found a little pressure around 78.5. That's 96% case fill as to capacity. Most cartridges perform best with powders that fill the case.

The 140 VLD exited my barrel at 3230 on the way to this guy...

Hey RC can you give me some kind of estimate of how long my barrel will last.

I do not plan on abusing it and shooting it shot after shot while the barrel is hot.

I would say 2 to 3 thousand

"I would say 2 to 3 thousand " No way...More like 1100 or possibly 1500. Mine has only 150 through it and it is showing fire cracking. no 5 shot groups and cleaned carefully every25-30 rounds.

I haven't even put those killer charges of WC872 through it.....yet

My .257 Roy was completly burnt at 1100 rounds

Lefty C

I read the article as well.....but the Hawkeye doesn't lie. My barrel, a lilija is only a #2 perhaps it heats faster? At 150 rounds it definably is starting to show some fire cracking.

I competed with a 6.5X284 in 1000 yard benchrest. That barrel, a Krieger went about 1000 rounds before it lost competitive accuracy. Benchrest is pretty hard on barrels with 10 shot groups fired rapidly + sighters, but there is a lot of history out there with 6.5X284 shot out at 1000-1200 rounds. I can't believe the .264 will be any better.
I am being really careful with mine and once I have a good load worked up it will have a pretty easy life.

Lefty C

I got 2500 rounds out of a Win Classic factory barrel in 264. But I loaded all of my rounds to about 3150 fps.

I shot quite a few 100 gr ballistic tip or 120 gr Rem core lokt through it loaded with H4831 to 3150 fps. This gave me a similar trajectory curve for my plinking or varmint rounds as I had with 140 gr Sierra hunting rounds.

Now she is wearing a 27 inch Pac-Nor #5 and fed a diet of 130 accubonds.

I was able to make 3250 with the 130 and H1000, Retumbo tentatively produced 3400 fps with the same bullet, but I have not shot it for accuracy. Magnum produced 3350 fps.

Surprisingly, H870 proved to be totally unsuitable in this rifle. 75 gr of H870 only gave 3125 fps (130 AB) and the bolt was a little stiff. 77 gr produced 3250 fps with the 130 AB and the bolt was quite stiff.

That's interesting IS, thanks for adding the info.

Went back out today. Increased the load 1/2 grain.





Shot another group not quite that good but under 1 MOA. Going back out for some steel later