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Dan, do you think that criticism of the NICE will hold true with the rumored load lifters due out soon? Or are those the same lifters MR is using for the Metcalf?

Exactly.... I talked to Ryan last time I was in Boz Angelas (coincedently I was on my way to Chico for the TBM shindig) and the new Carbon Fiber Stays are just as flimsy as the aluminum they use on the NICE 6500.

Another fail for MR....

I dig them as a company, and they make a good product. But they ain't going to keep making the same packs with flimsy stays and compete with Paradox and Kifaru for long.

The prototype Paradox I had here to test had a better fundamental grasp of backpacking 80 pound+ loads than a pack made by MR designed by Dana the Legend.

To piggy back on what Dan said, the rumors on the stand alone frame extensions are cloudy at best. I know of one guy who said that he sent his NICE frame in to be retrofitted, and another industry type tell me that MR will not be changing anything at all on the frame. It sounds like they are changing the stays though.

My take is this, they accidentally put themselves between a rock and a hard place. LOTS of people own the NICE frame, and for a while the Crew Cab was their bread and butter pack in the hunting market. Their durability factor was their major selling point, and to some degree it still is today.

But, with time people have realized they want shoulder lift regardless of the size of the bag. Everyone one of us goes into the woods planning to haul out a trophy, day trip, or long trip.

The problem with a new frame system with functioning shoulder lift is that it will obsolete the NICE frame, as well as put long time customers in a tough spot. They will either have to pay to have a retrofit extension put on, or order a whole new frame completely.

So that is where the Metcalf comes in. Big enough to be an expedition pack when the top lid is in use, and small enough to be a day pack when standing alone. Cut the excessive pockets and organization off that the 6500 etc have and the weight goes way down. Add a frame extension to gain shoulder lift on the average sized guy and it answers some of the complaints people have had.

It is still the heaviest pack in our review, but it is also built like a tank. It really is a trade off.

Another picture of the shoulder lift that the Paradox provides. Namack is 6 foot 1 inch, so this should show just how much is there for guys of average height.

The ILBE is OK for the money. I used one for a season. They are sturdy and fairly well built. Flawed design in some respects though, mainly relating to load carrying ability, so... I sold it to go back to the old BORA80 and now a MR Grizzly. Love both of those packs. I would fully expect every pack in sreekers review to pack heavy loads much better than the ILBE. Which is the most important 'feature' of any backpack, IMO.

Sorry, the Siwash was basically the same pack as the Late Season in panel-loading version. One thing you'll notice when you get around folks who live for weeks/months out of a pack, is you almost NEVER see a panel loader. I've owned exactly one, briefly, and that was enough.

TAK-I like the Panel loader on the Solo, but it does have a few differences than something like the Siwash. The zipper doesn't go all the way to the bottom, so my sleeping bag/pad/pillow all stays there pretty well.

Personally I like top loading, with side or bottom zip best, but I think the Solo can almost be used like a side zip if both zippers are on one side.

Time for a few pictures of the shoulder lift on the Stone Glacier Solo.

The frame is tall, and really provides plenty of lift.

I did not know the Siwash was a panel loader, but at least now I know I like panel loaders.


Travis

Why of course you would. You probably drink Old Millwaukee as well.

Great thread, and very timely, as I'm in the market for a new pack. I may have missed it, but will the full results be posted here or on your blog?

Seekers has a blog?


Travis

At this point it is very likely to become a thread here. I have been in contact with two websites for a front page article. I want that to be my first priority.

However, timeliness is big, and if I can't get a firm commitment I will post it on my blog, as well as here for interaction sake. Honestly, I am really liking the interaction back and forth, and being able to answer questions as they come up.

I really appreciate it! Good stuff.

No problem, I am glad you are getting useful information. Let me know if there is anything specific that we don't cover that you are interested in.

Another amazing story concerning what TAK has not used.



Travis

Oh, I "used" Milwaukee's Beast once, and, like a panel-loading pack, once was enough.

Really? Maybe you can help everybody out and let us know how it failed you on all your backpacking adventures?


Travis

I have owned many and can say for me I'll take the panel loader! Isn't good to have so many choices!