As stated in an earlier thread I am working on a pack review, and with this thread I wanted to preview what we will be covering and how the format will work.

namack and I picked 4 packs(thought about 5), in the 3-5 day hunt category to review. Our approach is to put 25 miles on each pack at varying weights and varying terrain and report our findings. We will do at least one hike with 100lbs+ because all of the packs claim to carry that much weight. The packs we have reviewed are the Kifaru Highcamp 4800/Bikini frame, Mystery Ranch Metcalf, Paradox Evolution, and the Stone Glacier Solo.

For any of you that have questions about my objectivity: Yes, I have a tester pack from Paradox, after this review I will be shipping it off to the next tester. I timed this review for when I would have their pack. I have written on the Seek Outside Blog(as well as others), and have a relationship with them. I have also communicated with Kurt, owner of Stone Glacier, and he has helped us with his pack extensively. Aron Snyder of Kifaru and I communicate fairly regularly and I have talked with him about this review twice, and the possibility of future reviews. I have only contacted the customer service department at Mystery Ranch once, but plan to talk to them in the near future. They are a stand up company with well documented customer service, so it should be no problem to communicate with them.

With those we have talked to we have shared our findings, our concerns, and our thoughts on their product. It has been our goal to understand each pack to the best of our ability, and share those things with the readers. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me via pm and I will answer them. Please DO NOT high jack this thread to distract from it's purpose. I want this to be an honest discussion about the 4 packs in our review, and hopefully helpful to all.

We will have a final copy ready for publication very soon. We each have one pack left to finish putting the miles on and will done VERY Soon. At that point we will point you the right direction for the review.

We have also put together 10 different categories to measure each of the packs. The goal is to have a standard to measure each of them and be able to report our findings on a 1-10 scale in each category, with 100 points total possible. The goal is to show where each pack has strengths, and weaknesses to show which pack is best for each individual user.

In the process of doing this I have gotten a lot of calls, emails and private messages asking me about this and that and I want to answer the most common questions about each pack as well as post a few pictures of the packs in use.

Stone Glacier:

"Can you do a full week in the Solo?"

Yes, but you will have to be a minimalist, and likely put food in a dry bag on the load shelf.

That is all of my gear for an overnighter, the only thing that would change for me is possibly the shelter, rifle, and the amount of food. Here it is loaded up.


My shelter and sleeping bag could have been smaller, but overall this was a minimalist set up.

"How comfortable is the one size fits all belt?"

If you are thinking about buying this pack, make sure and adjust the belt down with the velcro as necessary, and find out ahead of time if you need the lumbar pad. Under heavy loads the pad helped to fit my back quite a bit. If you have a curvy back I would buy the pad from the outset.

Kifaru Highcamp 4800/Bikini Frame


"How much different does the Biking frame feel from the Duplex?"

The Duplex frame feels more rigid, that is what I used all of last season. Straight out of the box you will notice that it is significantly lighter, but still very strong. If the Kifaru frame fits you, then this pack will fit you well. As is always the case, make sure you order the right stays on the first try, the Bikini won't allow you to change out the stays at all. They are riveted together to provide stability and support with two horizontal stays. The horizontal stays have the same function as the plastic frame sheet that goes with the Duplex, but cut down the weight significantly. The belt will look and feel the same as Kifaru's other offerings, so if you have used them in the past, expect that to fit very similarly. We have the 26 inch frame, which provides the same shoulder lift as their other 26 inch framed packs.

The biggest feel difference will be how much lighter it is. I had my friend bring over his Duplex to compare, and they managed to shave off a LOT of weight. The composite stays are very light and this is a lightweight pack capable of carrying heavy loads.


Paradox Evolution with Talon Daypack

-Photo courtesy of Paradox packs.

"Does this pack compare to the other top end packs?"

In short, yes it does. But, it is VERY different from the other packs that we are using. The pack is very much built for function, load hauling and carries a purpose built nature throughout. The pack has an old school external frame feel with modern technology added such as an articulating frame and x-pack material for water proof load hauling.

"Is it comfortable?"

Yes, it is comfortable, and yes it carries well. If you are a fan of the full wrap belt it will fit you well, and with a curvy back the belt articulates forward to match YOUR back. I will post up some pictures of that after this weekend, I will be taking it with me tonight.

"Is the x-pac noisy?"

The x-pac is a little bit noisier than cordura, and it does get a little more noisy in the cold. I put the pack bag in the freezer to find out just how much noisier and it is noticeable. I don't believe that it is enough to scare every animal out of the high country, and according to others who have used the material, the noise factor goes down as the material becomes more pliable.

BUT, with every feature there is a trade off. X-pac doesn't wet out like Cordura, and that will be a plus in wet environments. Adding a lot of weight to a pack in form of wather when it rains is never fun, x-pac avoids that.

I will post pictures after this weekend of the Paradox in use. All of our miles so far with this pack have been straight weight for the purpose of finding comfort levels at different weights.


Mystery Ranch Metcalf


"Is the Metcalf really lightweight?"

Mystery Ranch is known for building tough packs, that are super durable. The Metcalf holds all of those traits with heavy duty buckles, side zip an sewing. They cut the weight down by not putting ton of pockets for organization purposes all over the bag. So, it is significantly lighter than the other MR offerings, but is the heaviest in our review.

"Does the shoulder extension work?"

Yes, it does function and even at my height it provided some shoulder lift. You will lose the effective lift if you opt to use the meat shelf option because the lift comes from the bag and not the NICE frame.

"Is side zip that big of an advantage?"

Personally, I loved the side zip. It made accessing the pack very easy and was worth the weight penalty of the zipper in my opinion. I used it for easy access to my spotting scope on every trip out.

Feel free to post any questions that you have, and I will get back to them after this weekend. Thanks for reading!

Thanks this will help a noon like me buy a pack in the next few months. Do you have any links to the packs

I can't get the links to run it straight to the individual sites, so the big long ugly links will have to work.

Stone Glacier Solo-http://www.stoneglacier.com/solo.html

Mystery Ranch Metcalf-http://www.mysteryranch.com/hunting/nice-frame-packs/nice-metcalf-pack

Paradox Evolution-http://paradoxpacks.com/lightweight-backpacks/

Kifaru Bikini Frame-http://store.kifaru.net/highcamp-p114.aspx
Kifaru Highcamp Bag-http://store.kifaru.net/bikini-platform-frame-and-suspension-p116c3.aspx?Thread=True

Thanks for the write up. This stuff interests me more and more.

Rank them with honesty.

When and where will the write ups be?

I will have more on that ASAP. I don't want to speak prematurely.

Will add a few more pictures of some of the packs.


Paradox loaded up with my gear, and quite a bit of my wife's for an over-nighter. Fall bear opened as well, so I was prepared in case we ran into one.

Metcalf loaded with spotting scope and day gear for a scouting trip in late June.

Picture quality isn't great, but a creek crossing on another scouting trip.

Will keep posting more as I get them edited.

Mystery Ranch is clearly the company most in need of a boot in their ass.

I've been using their gear a while, and I've been to the shop twice.

Two things.... They need to burn the NICE frame to the ground, and they need to quit getting facials from Dana.

Then they could make badass backpacks at their current pricepoint that would actually not suck.

Good info sreekers. The side zipper on that MR makes me want one.



Travis

Travis, I wouldn't give up your Crewcab for it. Unless you just feel the need to write a check to MR.

I might sell my CC. I don't use it much. Just sits.



Travis

Looking forward to the reports on these packs, I like how you got the established brands mixed in with the new ones. If you can continue going with the reporting throughout the season. I would like to see some meat being hauled and some bad weather being overcome with the packs:)

Travis
The Metcalf is much better than the crewcab as a daypack, holds more better and is also lighter. I have both bags and love the metcalf!!

Does the Metcalf use the NICE frame? That might be a stupid question but I haven't read anything about them.



Travis

The Metcalf looks sweet. That may be the next piece of equipment I buy.

But, I got to fondle a Stone Glacier Solo about a month ago. That thing is [bleep] bad to the bone.

Yes, the Metcalf uses the NICE frame.

That means its a POS then.

Thanks.



Travis

Did your NICE frame fail you?


Travis

No, of course not. First time I looked at one and saw that it was designed for an ALICE pack, I laughed and tossed it into a pile.

I'm really shocked that you succeeded at not doing something. Again...



Travis

We plan to get plenty of pictures with packs getting bloody......if we can shoot straight.

I have to ship off the Paradox this week so i don't know if there will be any animal pics from me with it.

Shoot straight friendo.

Good info here. Dibs on the Metcalf if you trip it.



Travis

Travis, if we decide to offload the Metcalf after season I will let you know.

Will add a couple pictures of the Paradox and Kifaru today and maybe the Metcalf as well. I will take a few of the shoulder lift on the SG the week of the 15th.

The Kifaru and Paradox offer a LOT of shoulder lift. The Kifaru has a 26 inch frame, and the Paradox a 28. I am 6'5" and there is plenty of lift on both for me. The SG is comparable with the long frame that is on it as well.


Here is the Metcalf on namack, he is 6'1" and you can see the lift on him from the frame extension. We also moved the triglide forward on the harness after the pictures.


[img][/img]

Thanks broseph.



Travis

You can't move the takeoff point of the load lift strap forward far enough to do you any good on a NICE frame.

If they did that, and used a more rigid stay on the Metcalf (or the 6500, or now discontinued NICE5000) like Kifaru, they'd have a really damn good pack.

More frustrating is that nobody over there listens to the masses. Clearly their market is guys that know enough to know that Badlands and Elerlesuck aren't that great, but haven't been exposed to other "hunting" pack manufacturers.

Call me cheap, but I don't see any features on any of them that are so different from the ILBE packs the Marines were issued and are now selling for $130-ish delivered on ebay....

I see David's point...

I think they're great packs myself. But then again, I love my Badlands 2200 as well.


Travis

I've always been curious about those. I had an ALICE. My favorite pack is the Kifaru Siwash which doesn't seem really popular, but I love the thing.

But packs are no different than anything else, hard to knock it if you ain't tried it and that's why I like good reviews.


Travis

For S&G's I just bought one on e-bay (New) for $140 delivered and just got a shipping confirmation.

I'm kinda anxious to give it a whirl.

Thanks David!

I've had an ALICE or three, even rode the whirlwind with one a time or two, they suck balls.

The Siwash however, looks like it would be a great pack, at least the new one with 24in stays.

My favorite is the Siwash as well! Sucks they discontinued it and I wish they would make it again like the G2 but put the top straps back like the G1!

The MR Nice Frame was the worst hunting pack I ever owned for hunting due to weight and always on my shoulders! Built like a tank though or HIGH quality.

Discontinued?

http://store.kifaru.net/late-season-3400ci5571-liters-p3.aspx

I'd rather have a Hill People Gear Ute though.

I love mine.

I think mine is the G1. I love that thing.


Travis

2200s rock if you aren't a whiner.

I have not had the pleasure of using the ILBE yet, but if it is like most military gear someone with a connection develops the system then the rest of us knuckle draggers suffer for it. I hated the MOLLE rucksack. The ILBE definitely looks like a good design, however loading your animal on it looks a bit messy. From what I can tell there is no load shelf or separate compartment for your animal other than loading it into your bag next to your gear.

I have not used the ILBE yet either, and it may be a good pack. Most Acr'teryx stuff seems to be quality, but I can't comment on how it would perform in the backpack hunting world.

The packs we have chosen for this review are the top end packs, or gunning for that top spot. Yes, they are more expensive, and not everyone is going to drop that kind of cash for a hunting pack.

But, there are a LOT of guys out there who are looking to drop this kind of cash. This review is to sort out what does what best, and help the buyer figure out which pack will best suit the needs of their hunt.

It makes it even more difficult to sort through which pack will function best when there are new companies putting out solid, but untested products. Hopefully this will help answer questions to the people who are thinking about buying one of these new products that doesn't have a reputation.

If there is enough interest, I will take on an ILBE review in the near future.

Dan, do you think that criticism of the NICE will hold true with the rumored load lifters due out soon? Or are those the same lifters MR is using for the Metcalf?

Exactly.... I talked to Ryan last time I was in Boz Angelas (coincedently I was on my way to Chico for the TBM shindig) and the new Carbon Fiber Stays are just as flimsy as the aluminum they use on the NICE 6500.

Another fail for MR....

I dig them as a company, and they make a good product. But they ain't going to keep making the same packs with flimsy stays and compete with Paradox and Kifaru for long.

The prototype Paradox I had here to test had a better fundamental grasp of backpacking 80 pound+ loads than a pack made by MR designed by Dana the Legend.

To piggy back on what Dan said, the rumors on the stand alone frame extensions are cloudy at best. I know of one guy who said that he sent his NICE frame in to be retrofitted, and another industry type tell me that MR will not be changing anything at all on the frame. It sounds like they are changing the stays though.

My take is this, they accidentally put themselves between a rock and a hard place. LOTS of people own the NICE frame, and for a while the Crew Cab was their bread and butter pack in the hunting market. Their durability factor was their major selling point, and to some degree it still is today.

But, with time people have realized they want shoulder lift regardless of the size of the bag. Everyone one of us goes into the woods planning to haul out a trophy, day trip, or long trip.

The problem with a new frame system with functioning shoulder lift is that it will obsolete the NICE frame, as well as put long time customers in a tough spot. They will either have to pay to have a retrofit extension put on, or order a whole new frame completely.

So that is where the Metcalf comes in. Big enough to be an expedition pack when the top lid is in use, and small enough to be a day pack when standing alone. Cut the excessive pockets and organization off that the 6500 etc have and the weight goes way down. Add a frame extension to gain shoulder lift on the average sized guy and it answers some of the complaints people have had.

It is still the heaviest pack in our review, but it is also built like a tank. It really is a trade off.

Another picture of the shoulder lift that the Paradox provides. Namack is 6 foot 1 inch, so this should show just how much is there for guys of average height.

The ILBE is OK for the money. I used one for a season. They are sturdy and fairly well built. Flawed design in some respects though, mainly relating to load carrying ability, so... I sold it to go back to the old BORA80 and now a MR Grizzly. Love both of those packs. I would fully expect every pack in sreekers review to pack heavy loads much better than the ILBE. Which is the most important 'feature' of any backpack, IMO.

Sorry, the Siwash was basically the same pack as the Late Season in panel-loading version. One thing you'll notice when you get around folks who live for weeks/months out of a pack, is you almost NEVER see a panel loader. I've owned exactly one, briefly, and that was enough.

TAK-I like the Panel loader on the Solo, but it does have a few differences than something like the Siwash. The zipper doesn't go all the way to the bottom, so my sleeping bag/pad/pillow all stays there pretty well.

Personally I like top loading, with side or bottom zip best, but I think the Solo can almost be used like a side zip if both zippers are on one side.

Time for a few pictures of the shoulder lift on the Stone Glacier Solo.

The frame is tall, and really provides plenty of lift.

I did not know the Siwash was a panel loader, but at least now I know I like panel loaders.


Travis

Why of course you would. You probably drink Old Millwaukee as well.

Great thread, and very timely, as I'm in the market for a new pack. I may have missed it, but will the full results be posted here or on your blog?

Seekers has a blog?


Travis

At this point it is very likely to become a thread here. I have been in contact with two websites for a front page article. I want that to be my first priority.

However, timeliness is big, and if I can't get a firm commitment I will post it on my blog, as well as here for interaction sake. Honestly, I am really liking the interaction back and forth, and being able to answer questions as they come up.

I really appreciate it! Good stuff.

No problem, I am glad you are getting useful information. Let me know if there is anything specific that we don't cover that you are interested in.

Another amazing story concerning what TAK has not used.



Travis

Oh, I "used" Milwaukee's Beast once, and, like a panel-loading pack, once was enough.

Really? Maybe you can help everybody out and let us know how it failed you on all your backpacking adventures?


Travis

I have owned many and can say for me I'll take the panel loader! Isn't good to have so many choices!

How do you waterproof the gear inside your pack?

I have always like panel loaders. All my gear goes into stuff sacks or dry bags anyway. Best panel loader design IMO is the Granite Gear, where there are internal compression straps so there is no unnecessary strain in a zipper.

You do pay more in weight but they sure are convenient.

That said, I don't own a panel loader at present, well except for a day pack. I have really come to appreciate the simplicity of a hauler style like the ULA Epic and now the Paradox. Big dry bag for multi day, medium dry bag for weekend or overnight and small dry bag or nothing at all except the Talon/compression panel pocket for day use or day hunts.

I learned long ago to not trust any coated fabric on any style pack to keep stuff dry that has to be kept dry.

Laughin'...



Travis

Ed,

I was damn tempted to buy that GG pack you had up for sale. I'm sure it is gone now but it looks ideal.

BillyGoatGruff bought a GG Flatbed and I am very tempted to switch to that style with dry bags. Seems like you can carry most anything with it.



Travis

I'm really liking the looks of the Paradox. Has a combination of features I'm looking for - the shoulder lift, the daypack, the compression ability for hauling quarters.

A couple questions:
What size pack bag are you using?

The Paradox site says they use "actual measured volumes", which come out to be larger than other manufacturer's stated volumes. Did you find this to be the case?

The 1st demo Paradox had the bag which I would say is equal to most 7500 ci bags. The Paradox I have now is just the hauler version with a day Talon.

As far as dry bags, I like a 65-70 liter for a big bag, a 50 liter for the medium and then a 15 liter for a day bag.

Fixed it for ya'. You're welcome.

So, some hate panel loaders, EdT, who is one here whom I greatly respect in terms of realtime gear knowledge likes them, MR packs are actually no good and so on and so forth.

I will no longer, after a highly satisfactory period of using Dana Gleason's various packs, from 1978 to the present and owning about a dozen different ones, buy MR gear. They have instituted a shipping policy to Canada, which makes each gear item MUCH more expensive as they now will ONLY ship UPS or FEDEX and these companies charge HUGE special fees to Canadians.

So, while I have always found DD and MR packs to be better than any of the scores I have tried (FOR ME), (worked in the gear industry helps, too), a longtime and formerly most satisfactory relationship is no more. Well, WTF, life goes on....

Me? For many things, mostly fishing alpine lakes and "nature study", I LIKE panel loaders and have a DD Longbed Loadmaster in unused condition which I bought for fishing trips, just B/4 my wife became ill. I do NOT care for this type as my "working" pack for living out of in remote BC or Yukon-NWT wilderness for extended periods and this is where the MR NICE system has been THE choice FOR ME.

All that said, I have not seen a pack yet that appeals to me, based on photos, as much as the Paradox system does, other than custom McHales and these are what I would choose if buying another pack now.

The Kifaru Siwash I had, G1, I loved, but, their waistbelt does NOT suit me and neither of my Kifaru packs was ever comfortable with weights that my MRs carry with ease. So, back to "square one" as only some serious use can really tell you just what works best for YOU.

I also like the look of the SG "Solo" and as my wife is slowly improving after spinal neuro-surgery, I am thinking of one of these for her as she wants to hike and even hunt with me.

As others have mentioned here, we ARE lucky to have so many choices and not live in some sch!thole like Syria!

The cut on the 6300 is different than other bags as well. Its more of a V shape than the pear looking bags that most packs are. I have packed it a but different than other bags i have used. Some of the bulkier stuff ended up higher than in the usual sleeping bag compartment.

It was either you, or your BFF backpacked a 5th of Wild Turkey 101. don't pretend to have more class that you actually do

I don't know what that means.



Travis

Well, now I know what I've been missing. I should be hunting in places where I can swim rivers.......

I can't stop laughing...


Travis

It just keeps getting better and better.

Maybe poker's not your game Ike.

You'd best stay away from AK in that case. The Rockies are pretty damned dry, and the rivers shallow, no glaciers to speak of. In spite of that NOLS has lost at least one student to drowning on their trek at the end of the course.

Post pictures...or it never happened.

sreekers,

How does the width of the Stone glacier frame compare to the NICE frame?

They tend to frown on taking pictures at Camp McKall during the Special Forces Qualification Course, as you are otherwise quite occupied at the time, and when I had to do it in AK, I didn't have my camera out, because, well, I was crossing a SWOLLEN RIVER.

Dude. Chill out. On the list of things that are important in a hunting backpack, the ability to swim rivers is not one I see mentioned very often. Probably because so few do it. And those few who do would be foolish to count on their pack alone to keep their stuff dry, as Ed T pointed out. How did the NOLs students keep their rifles dry?

You made a general statement about panel loaders being POS's, and then you gave "swimming rivers" as the reason.

Generally speaking, swimming rivers is not an issue for backpacking hunters. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't do Bear Grylls sh** when I'm out hunting, especially alone. It's foolish.

While swimming rivers, does the pack have inflatable pontoons or such?

Seems to me swimming rivers while wearing large heavy objects might be a bad idea,

I don't recall seeing Tarzan and Jane swimming rivers while wearing backpacks..

Does the pack hinder you while doing hand to hand combat with the Crocodiles when crossing the river?

I will take a picture to show frame width when i get back home tomorrow night.

The SG frame has a wider feel because there is more contact where the harness meets the frame. The SG harness is far and away the easiest to adjust and tune to the user in this group of packs.

I pack my stuff in dry bags. It keeps things organized as well. With a top loader it is no different.

Dry bags?

When were these invented?

Seems they would be handy as I'm sinking to the bottom of the river .

Damn you're dumb. Use little silnylon "drybags" and see if your panel loader will float and get back with us. You really should learn to swim as well. And yes, you can rig up "pontoons" for yourself and your pack if you have the gear. It really isn't rocket science.

For you, most certainly, cause you are too stupid to remove it.

You don't swim rivers? Weiner.

No, I can't. My pack is too heavy from all the climbing gear I bring to solo new routes up cliffs.

I thought it was too heavy from the steak and potatoes you bring. I've seen how you eat and want to go hunting with you

Ha, any time Ed, just let me know. Don't forget the Granny Smiths, there's nothing like a skillet full, fried in butter with cinnamon.

Seriously though, I'm going as light as possible this year, I'm using a Go-lite pack, no steak and potatoes at least for the early hunt. If I get one down, I'll have the G2 Longhunter Guide to go back up the mountain with after the first load.

I reckon a Go-lite wouldn't stand up to fording a river or Special Forces Training regimens either; call me a fool but I'm gonna use one anyway.

Sreekers, sorry for the diversion, great thread.

You live in CO and don't climb? Why not? Go for it. Make "Bear" proud of you:)

Sreekers, sorry for taking a dump on your thread and to Smoke and all the other resident smart-azzes, I apologize for volunteering, at 17, and then spending nearly 22yrs, in units that consider being able to waterproof a pack and ford a river to be a survival skill on par with building a fire. Excuse the [bleep] outta me.

Take-a-knee:

Thank you for your service.

But I have to ask, why do you feel it's necessary to always refer to special forces training in discussing backpacking gear? Do you think the gear requirements for special forces are germane in these discussions?

I don't. Because the consequences of a pack failure while I'm big game hunting are not in the same league. I can get away with a pack that's less sturdy, but 3-4 lbs. lighter, and the trade-off is worth it to me. Because if my pack blows out, all it means is a five-mile (at most) stroll in the woods back to the truck to get my spare.

Once you understand that big-game hunting is not putting your life on the line every time out, you'll get it.

It's okay. My grampa was a ninja.

For those reading this and hoping for input, I'll give mine as to why I like "panel openers."

If/when something is dead and needs packing up. Your pack will look something like this:


Open it up and put a bag of dead meat in it, like this:


At this point, whether you are using a pillow case, or a dry bag, or multiple dry bags, you should recognize you can see everything with the pack open, and distribute throughout the bag as you see fit. Once everything is Even-Steven, you can close 'er up.



Cinch nice and tight, and you're read to walk out:



Does not matter if it is clothes, dry bags, or dead schit, the open panel gives you a nice open view of what's in your pack. I'm not going to disrupt sreekers review any further, but I would say anybody that has ever started digging at the top of a seabag, to find something at the bottom of a seabag, would understand the benefits of an "open panel" pack.

They have benefits, as do their alternative. But I prefer the "open panel" for a number of reasons.


Travis

Good luck swimming a river with ATF agents on your trail with that one.

I managed to get this:


Into this:


[bleep] I look good...


Travis

That panel loader of yours need s bio-hazard placard. Good thing you don't live in bear country.....

That's a cute way of admitting you've never done a [bleep] thing.



Travis

Several years ago I got all of the first-hand experience I'll ever need with the NICE frame. Here's the 6500 bag and a two week 96lb load going into Hells Canyon. Heavy learning curve on that trip (pun there).


Two years later (took about that long to heal!) I figured out how to get two weeks pared down to 70lbs. I've got the same pack Travis does. No rules against strapping stuff to the outside.



Had to camp like this to dump the ounces. Still fun though.

By mid day on the second day I was quickly losing my need for OCD organization. Just stuffed my Wiggy's vest under the bungie cord.


Even with a great attitude and a light pack, the country "just said no" and pushed me out. That snow built up in about 5hrs and didn't let up. Bad formula for safe solo hunting. Taken at the same location as photo#2 the day before.



Long winded way of saying I like panel loaders, and a pack in the 4000ci range. I don't like the NICE frame, although the frame extensions on the 6500 bag help some. YYMV, but I returned my MR gear after that trip.

I have minimal complaints about the Siwash, but am saving my coins for a HPG Ute which will cover my bases from day trips to week-longs.

your pics remind me of the last yardsale I went too

I really was a lot more organized than the photos show. It was mostly that bulky vest I kept on the outside of the pack to stay warm when I stopped and dropped my pack.

And the final photo tells the story------------I was coming out and heading home, so fug it. I was moving too fast to get cold wearing wool for all layers, so I just let the snow soak me. It was nine miles and not worth trying to stay dry. Broken ankles/bones were the real concern. I was warm, happy and tired.

I got some looks of awe from the late arrivers sitting at the trailhead in their warm rigs trying to decide what to do.

A Back Country Shelter with a Ti stove could have made the difference there. Not much of a weight/space penalty either.

Don't worry. Dan needs a 6500 for an overnight.


Travis

I thought I did too---------but for two weeks. Pain is a marvelous teacher however, and I learned that I'll never go IN with that much weight again, and I'll never use a NICE frame again.

nice pics. wish you would have included one of the river you had to swim with that panel loader.

Another thing I learned is that while leaving my pistol at home I saved about 978grams, it was NOT worth it. The photo of my tarp camp will forever hold a warm place in my heart. Learning occurred that night. I laid there (English teachers feel free to step in here) all night thinking about Oregon's woof problem, in addition to the cats, and bears that probably weren't sleeping yet. I was in a mummy bag, which was inside a bivy, and my 700Ti lying next to me would have been zero help if I awoke to being chewed on. The logical side of my brain kept saying "shut up and go to sleep," while the side kept waking me up saying "what was that?!" I swear I could hear mice at 200yards that night! I've never had that kind of fear (how about hyper-vigilance?) before, but I've never slept w/o a pistol before. Another lesson learned.

I'm fully aware of what this confession might cost me, but this thread needs a boost.

I've got a Paratipi, but wanted to try a lighter approach, and one that didn't require driving lots of pegs in potentially rocky ground. My previous hunt (photo#1) involved a non-freestanding one man tent and setup did NOT go well during a heavy rainstorm and 3-4" of topsoil. That was another lesson learned. With my E-vent bivy and tarp, and synthetic mummy, I could crawl into the thing w/o setting up a camp at all in a worst case scenario. Or add a tarp to cook/hang out/sleep under if given the chance. I could have stayed drier if I wanted, but that country was steep and rocky, and once covered in snow I was worried about getting in over my head with an injury. Poles helped a lot coming out.

In my, albiate limited experience, it's because some people put their entire existence and self worth into what they did one time twenty or thirty years ago. They also believe that because they walked somewhere with a pack, or swam on a coast, or got drowned in a pool, that they now have some ultimate knowledge pertaining to all things. Never realizing that carrying a pack at camp Mackall in no way has anything to do with carrying a pack on a backpack hunt, or really anything for that matter. Some also have a hard time understanding that life is a fluid environment that changes and advances and if you don't stay in the game you become obsolete.

Meanwhile some who have walked with a pack, swam on a coast, got drowned in a pool (or more), realize that much like making the football team in high school, it was a one time event that really denotes no particular expertise or knowledge.


My meager experience has revealed that even at relatively high levels the military is rather mediocre in comparison to the "civilian" community in technical skill and knowledge...... But hey- I'm not a Green Beret so what do I know.......

222,

That wasn't 2011 by any chance was it?

I was one ditch over from HC that year for rifle deer. It went from hot/dry & dormant sage, to full-on snow!

Sorry to sidetrack...

Just started playing with the Bikini & Highcamp 7000. I like panel loaders in theory but wanted to go as light as possible. I'm used to organizing with stuff sacks on my packs and motos. Not as easy as a panel loader for sure, but I'm a wimp and want everything featherweight until I can afford a mule.

Jason

That's not true at all... If you're packing the whiskey

I'm Irish, I have demons that require being drank to sleep.

I think this one beats your drywall statement. Classic!

I have had a couple of trips where the snow came down like that. It can be brutal, but a camp with a heated shelter can make all of the difference. Drying out is a must, I won't do that kind of weather without a stove.

I will be shipping off the paradox to Dan in the morning, he should be able to comment a bit more on this pack in particular.

Namack and I will be heading out the week of the 15th with the Kifaru and Stone Glacier for a deer hunt. If I can prolong my phone battery life I will post updates here on both of those packs.

If something should die i will send out some pictures to be shared as well.

Me either, although I don't know what it has to do with drying out.

Fixed.....

That Hoffman Triangle gobbled you up, didn't it?

Nope, but the same weather system hit several of the NE Oregon units. More the rule than the exception that time of year, and a heated shelter (especially if returning to a base camp) is the way to fly IMO. The guys with wall tents always smile the biggest. In fact I'm starting to think with the consistently inconsistent weather each fall that hunting from a large comfy base camp with a few other guys makes more sense than trying to go fast and light solo. More comfortable, and much safer if something goes wrong.

Sorry for the 2nd hijack......

The closest I've ever been to hypothermic, both times, was getting caught in a freak Montana July rainstorm. Wes laughed when I said my rollup Ti stove from EdT was in my "essential gear" pile when we through hiked The Bob. I never even used it, which isn't the point

I'll keep an eye out for the pack. Kevin can tell you a story about how you never ship USPS contract PO without a tracking number. I work next week, then I'm gone bowhunting for 8-9 days. If that pack gets here, I got a spot I'll take it with a pile of gear and hunt and fish for a few days.

Should anybody in NW Montana be bored 9-18 through 9-22, and you like to bowhunt and fish for cutties, and you don't got plans, and you have friends who are asain strippers, fire me a PM. My hunting buddy is in Afghanistan right now.

I did two winters in the arctic infantry but the coldest I've ever been was in S.Carolina, soaking azz wet. I camped near Moose Creek below the Chinese Wall last summer, right near where that young Marine's body had been laying between some rocks for nearly two years. They found him a couple of weeks after I was there.

I could be a smart azz and say something about not properly waterproofing your pack might be a contributing factor to your demise but.....

I hate to say it, but I usually use Sea to Summit silnylon stuff sacks with the roll top closures, and I use the eVent S2S compression sacks for my sleeping bags. Both times, everything in my pack was dry. I was being a stubborn idiot, since it was July and I was already sweaty..... Blahblah stupidness.... I probably could swim a river with my pack on, and keep my goodies dry. I just don't see the wisdom in it.

I'm assuming you're talking about Noah Pippin? It was actually Luke Lauteret's dad that found him. That family knows that part of The Bob VERY well. He has been on the S&R on several trips in The Bob over the last 20 years. No shocker that Luke's band is named Marshall Catch...

If Noah had a tent with a stove, he'd survived a Bob Marshall sleet and snow storm in September. I've hunted hundreds of days in The Bob in September. I've seen everything in the way of weather that Montana can throw a guy.

I realize this is a total hi-jack.... Sometimes a guy just has to know when to puss out and pitch a tent and light a fire. Once it's too late, you're pretty much F'd. Even if you waterproofed your pack.

Wood stove in the Bob in July? Talk about a minimalist...




Travis

Most of the working, professional "bushmen" I have known over the years in BC, Alberta and the Canadian northern territories, do not carry a wood stove or even a tent on hunting/winter treks.

I recall discussing this very point with a former colleague in the old BCFS, later a wilderness "ranger" with BC Parks and later yet, a self-employed guide in one of BC's wettest, most rugged and, IMO, most beautiful wilderness ares, now, due to the efforts over decades of he, I and a number of others, a "Class A" BC Park.

He felt, as I have for 40+ years and so do several others, that IF you get "caught" in a genuine survival situation in the bush, you may very well be already too cold, wet and/or injured and thus not able to gather DRY firewood, erect fairly complex shelters and start/maintain a fire. So, the stove, et al, becomes just "extra" weight.

People, especially foreigners from more populous places, die very frequently here, even in the mountains surrounding Greater Vancouver and many of them are youngish, fit and will tell you that they ARE "mountain men" and "experienced", yet, one often sees a 206 flying out of the mountains a 20 min. drive from my home, with the long, cigar-shaped bundle on a lanyard below.

My personal opinion and longterm practice is to ALWAYS have ON MY BODY a light "emerg" pack containing a "camp" that I can make into a "cocoon" which will keep me dry, allow me to warm up and will repel any foul weather I might encounter for days on end.

With this, while I will have a "base camp", I am not too worried about snowfalls, rain or even a fractured ankle and I have been "caught out" on many occasions. I often will take a nap under a tree, mid day, using part of this rig and I do not and have never worried about Wolves, Cougars or bears.

So, each to his own, but, I actually hope for the snow conditions as shown above and light over-night falls during one of my usual 3-5 day camping hunts as this gives the best chances to actually determine the level of activity of deer,etc, in a given area.

Exclusive of the actual pack, my total camp and hunting gear weighs about 12 lbs. all in and has everything I need to be clean, comfortable and safe in "winter" hunting conditions as we have here in some Sept., Oct. and November. This, does not include my Leica/Gitmo spotter/tripod rig as I never carry such optics to hunt deer and not always for Elk in the Kootenays.

I very strongly agree, IF, you begin to feel really thrashed, STOP and maybe rig an "emerg" camp and get a good rest, a fire is a benefit both in physical warmth and definitely in coping with that atavistic "fear" that so often increases in the bush when tired and a bit sore,especially if it is snowing, raining and/or you are alone.

But, it is often SO difficult to light and maintain a fire that some other options seem very worthwhile to me. It is only too possible for even the MOST experienced, fit and motivated hunter/hiker to become lost, injured or caught out in sudden, debilitating weather events, so, I do not depend on always being able to have a fire.

JMHO/YMMV.

Always have room in my pack for a fusee or two.

Fusees kick azz. Besides the personal fire use, I for one wouldn't be above starting some country on fire if I had an incident that put me on the verge of croaking. Torch out a stand of sub-alpine fir, and somebody will be along shortly to check it out. Might not be a real PC way to get rescued, but trees regrow, I don't.

They can also be used to ward off evil spirits.




Travis

So I got to ask, how many people has Take a Knee killed?

Where can I get some fusees?

Innanet.. local farm store might have em
..

Why don't you ask Rancho, he seems to be preoccupied with it. He also knows the reason I asked his ignorant azz that question, and you, aparrantly, do not.

They are a bit on the heavy side for backpacking, but, I do not know of ANY other item that will get dampish wood burning like a flare will. I would usually prefer the cotton ball-vaseline fire starters and am just gathering the ingedients for the cedar bark, parafin, candle wick, egg carton ones, these more for my Four Dog Ti stove in damp BC than for "emerg" fires, but, a fusee or two is not a bad thing to keep in your pack.

To ward of ...evil spirits... avoid "moonshine" and just drink Glenmorangie, Balvenie, or Lagavulin........

Reminds me of a news story when lived in UT. A couple got stranded in desert by getting their Subaru stuck in the spring mud. They were there for something like 4 days and had resorted to eating the dog food they had with them. A rancher finally discovered them. Once the story broke a news crew did an on site report once the road had dried out. There were litterally hundreds of juniper trees in view! 'Twer it me and mine I would have been lighting them things off like roman candles!!!

I wasn't referring to you in my post Dan. As an aside, Seek Outside does make a sub pound Ti stove, the Sibley.

For exactly that reason, the lightest weight emergency heat you can get outside of a campfire.

That's probably why I knock the [bleep] out of a KU5200 on an overnighter. (when I leave the whiskey home, of I'd need 750Ml more space)

That's quite the get-up you have on there...nice sticker on the stock too.

Love it!

Reminds me... (repeat story) One time in the deep dusk beside a mountain highway I hitched a ride with two good ol boys in a pick-up and when I saw that they were hunters I asked if I could throw in my pack and rifle which were hidden nearby. I wanted a ride to a phone booth 30 miles away to have my wife pick me up 24 hours early. They peered up at the snowy peaks around us and asked if I'd been "up there" in the same tone as if they were looking at Mars.

I've been keeping camp for two grandsons who were archery hunting elk and missed the latter half of this marvelous thread. Some great pics, experience and wisdom therefrom on this thread.

Three days ago my 14 year old grandson stalked within 40 yards of a 5x5 Roosevelt in old growth. He passed a poor bow shot as it fed straight toward him, then spooked some cows as he tried to ease around for a better arrow angle and got no shot. He drilled a grouse just above dead center with an arrow at 20 yards. A stove is nice but taking a grandchild is better!

The most comfortable camping I've ever done was in a tent with stove, but I have never backpacked either.

You gotta do it with style.



Travis

Well you did it.

One source...

http://www.unitedfire.net/product/30minfuseenospike.html

Looking forward to the updates.

Just to keep the thread moving a bit, some plans have changed a bit due to weather.

The duration of the hunt is going to be the same, unless we can kill a bear and 2 deer in this one trip. I may hate life if that happens.

The rain that never seems to go away has made it necessary for me to bring my stove with me. The plan was to use the Lil Bug Out and two bases for a couple days until some buddies arrive on Thursday. Then get into the six man for the 4 of us and use the LBO for gear.

Well, I will now be using the Kifaru 4800 instead of the Stone Glacier Solo. The exta capacity will allow me to get the six and stove up comfortably, as well as the rest of my necessary gear. 6.5 days worth of food is a lot to account for, and adding a stove really killed some internal space.

Both packs have load shelf capability, but the Solo's bag is smaller. Namack will be coming up on Tuesday with the Solo, and will meet me at camp. He will use the Solo to get all his gear in, and we will both use both packs throughout the rest of the week.

I would like to be around the 50lb mark for my pack, but will be pushing it to get to that weight for a full week. Especially with my monstrosity of a spotting scope and the stove to haul in.

I will post pictures of my pack full of gear before I leave.

You need one of those big 6000 plus packbags that swallow gear . It makes life a lot easier

That or a lighter stove

The problem with the 6000 cui bags is that it's way too easy to bring way too much along! If Namack were coming up sooner I would pawn some gear off on him, but I will need just about everything for the entire week.

Ed, your stoves have intrigued me for a long time. I thought long and hard about which one one I wanted.

My gear is all over the living room and my wife is ready for it to be out of her way ASAP. She likes having a freezer full of meat though, have to take the good with the bad.

So, see anything that would make me give up my Gen 1 Kifaru long hunter?

I see lots of need things, but never see enough in one package to make me switch.

Am I wrong?

I just pimped out a G1 Longhunter with a silnylon bag, back pocket,and compression kit from Hill People Gear, and added Kifaru carbon laminated stays. 4lb 14oz.

I got a MR CrewCab+lid waiting at home courtesy of Travis. I'm looking forward to trying it out, but that Metcalf looks sweet.

sreekers, which MR bag do you recommend for 2-5 day trips, if not the Metcalf?
Would a 6500 be more than enough?

What do you view as weaknesses on your longhunter? The only way I can answer is to address which packs do better in areas you view as a weakness. If the better performance in those areas is worth it then i would spend the money.

If the Crewcab doesn't cut it, then yeah, in the MR line the next one on for the NICE frame is the 6500.

I used to use my Crewcab all the time for overnighters and 2 dayers, until I picked up my KU5200.

The packbag. When you pick it up, you wonder what you left in it.

Looking forward to seeing the article somewhere man....should be a very good read.


As for the 6K bag tempting you to take more than you need?? Just take what you know you need based on a smaller pack and then you have more options incase you need to carry more gear for someone...someonelse pack fails and you need to carry more or simply just put your gear and pack in the same bag. The factions of a pound or so between a 2-3K bag and a 6K bag hardly make it worth running a smaller bag for my uses, but we all have different uses that is for certain.

Sounds like a good setup...I tried a similar setup last year for packing out a caribou and even with just day hunt gear in their day pack (forget their name for it) it was cubed out pretty quick with puffy gear, food, water, and what not and especially so when the caribou was inbetween the frame and the daypack.

But I'm sure you've used it a lot and know it works well packing out critters so if it works for you great. Just found that the function for me in reality didn't work as great as I thought it might on paper.

I err on the side of extra space and a little discipline. First, if I need to carry someone else's stuff I can, second in a waterproof pack with extra volume ill forgo compressing a sleeping bag or anything else and just throw it in. The extra space of a large packbag is actually lighter than a bunch of compression sacks

Yup, if you are going to or only have ONE dedicated hunting pack, the larger, roughly 6500 cu. in. models are the most versatile for any actual "backpack hunting".

I suppose it depends where and even when you hunt, but, the overall BC big game season has just opened here and it has been HOT as in record breaking temps. My buddy and I chose to cancel a Blacktail trek to Van. Is. as I detest hunting in 85+* temps and with zillions of flies still around to get at your meat.

Yet, we have encounted sub-freezing temps, extreme winds, blowing snow and icy highways in past years at this same time of year and also heavy, continual rain and high wings, again, at "opening day". So, one never knows what to expect and I prefer to have us actually hunt alone so I always carry a real "emerg." camp and have for decades.

This, means I tend to carry at least my NICE-Wolf Alpha pack and often just my other NICE rig, a 6500 on an "Overkill" frame. Yeah, they DO weigh a couple of lbs. more, but, are always there to pack out whatever I can on the initial trip to the 4x4 and that saves my elderly, sore and gimpy carcass many tough steps.

Whatever, lotsa ways of reaching your own goals in this sport and some experimentation seems like a plan, to me.

I agree 100% Kevin!

I agree. Never understood some of these guys that have 3700 cubic inch pack and then they end up looking like the Beverly Hillbillies with all the crap strapped to the outside.
And then they talk like they cam pack their camp and their game all at once. Maybe if they are hunting bunnies!

If I wanted 2 MR packbags to fit all my needs i would own a Metcalf and 6500. But that is only if i was limited to that brand and platform.

in my opinion the 6500 is overkill for 2 to 4 days. The glaRing weakness of the Metcalf is the loss of shoulder if you use the meat shelf option.

ThE 6500 will have shoulder lift regardless, but you pay the penalty in initial pack weight. If you are really tough the 6500 can get a lot more weight out in one trip simply based on volume.

Personally, if the Metcalf stays in my closet after this review it will primarily be a summer scouting pack.



quote=Tanner]I got a MR CrewCab+lid waiting at home courtesy of Travis. I'm looking forward to trying it out, but that Metcalf looks sweet.

sreekers, which MR bag do you recommend for 2-5 day trips, if not the Metcalf?
Would a 6500 be more than enough? [/quote]

Well, no, cause I just got the stuff put together. It is a tad short on volume. I'm thinking I might need to run a KU pod on the top of the pack. I've also considered a carbon-fiber cannister lashed to the top of the pack for food. I'm going to have to buy one for a hike I want to go on anyway.

That coming from a man who can pull off a ski traverse with a ULA Ohm?

I need to add another thought, if these packs didn't have load shelves there is no way i would use them hunting. The extra space is a must for getting meat and gear out.

When i am solo i prefer the small pack bags, but 2 weekends ago i used the bigger Paradox for my wife and I. I carried the majority of both of our gear, so yes i agree with what everyone else is stating.

I like the modified ohm but always wanted / needed more volume. I did pull of 30 ish miles of mostly snow with an ohm but it was tricky and it was pretty much as minimal as I could go. I also pulled of a November backpack high elevation elk hunt and it was the same way. I'd take the same modified suspension with an extra 2k cubes and pay the couple ounces of 70d weight penalty. The ohm size is a great UL summer pack but a stretch for winter and fall for sure unless you plan on tarping and not carrying much for safety. The winter travers there was no option for axe, crampons and snow shoes .... It was pick what can fit and make work

I should note I probably spent 6 tto 10 hrs of planning to make it work on the winter trip. A bigger packbag would have taken me a half hour to get ready. I think I packed and unpacked like 20 times

If you're moving camp frequently a bigger packbag is nice. You don't have to roll everything into its smallest possible dimension. As Kevin said it is so quick to just stuff sleeping bag, pad, clothes and all other gear in the pack and head out.

That said, most of my stuff is small enough that I can do that with a 4800.

I'm heading out with a 35 liter dry sack this weekend and could probably squeeze 3 days but in a couple weeks would need to move to 65 liter or 4800. 4800 is a nice size for me for most things as I am often carrying others gear or stuff I would not normally carry

For me with dry bags, I like a 15 liter for a day pack.
25 liter for overnight or weekend.
50 liter for multi-day to a week going light.
then 65-75 liter for longer trips or colder weather.

Few pics of a Paradox fresh from up north.

Where was this hunt, looks much like some of Canada's northern territories?

How did they deal with cooling and storing the meat from that Caribou as the "timber" looks a wee bit "scarce", so, hanging in a bug proof sack system might have been difficult to do?

Those trees look MORE than capable for hanging meat. Having hung caribou and dall sheep in willows I'd say those spruce trees are pretty luxurious in comparison. Just tie off the game bags to willow or small trees works well....leave plenty of air circulation and if its on the north side of tree/brush you are hanging on it generally keeps it off the ground....of course you could also make a "meat pole" out of trekking poles. Plenty of different ways to skin that cat.

I did NOT say that one couldn't do it, just that it might be a bit difficult with the "Picea Mariana" seen in the photo. Also, I think in terms of hanging meat HIGH above ground to prevent certain furry characters from swiping it and am used to BIG timber, so, I guess I have a bit of "bias" in that respect.

However, no major issue here, but, I have two pairs of trekking poles, one the Komperdell C3s and the other are Black Diamond, top of their line a couple of years ago, maybe "cork" something or other?

I would be rather hesitant to try to hang an Elk quarter for example from any sort of rig I can envision made from two of these and am intrigued by this. Can you enlighten me as to HOW you go about doing this, without busting $150.00+ poles and if you do this with two or four of these poles?

Even "an old dog" and I certainly qualify, can sometimes learn "new tricks"!

HAHA...Kute I certainly meant no disrespect man. Its done with 3 to 4 sets of trekking poles I've hung a caribou with 3 sets before and 2 dall sheep with 4 sets. Most of the time hanging from willows or simply rotation the meat while its load over scrub brush in quality game bags under a sil nylon tarp provides plenty of air flow and keeps it cool and dry.

I have some pics of the trekking pole meat pole, but I wouldn't wanna hang elk quarters off of it either...dall sheep and even moderate sized caribou like posted above sure...but no not elk. Again no disrespect at all, just don't take your treeline going to 5k plus feet for granted

Yep, it is amazingly warm at higher elevations of southern B.C. I spent Fri. night in an impromptu overnight in sub-alpine between Vancouver & Hope-- and it was warm all night, T-shirt balmy in the dark before dawn Sat. morning. Lots of biting black flies and some mosquitoes. I picked 3.5 gallons of huckleberries and had a deer tag along as secondary goal but due to heat decided to only shoot a buck near the road, even though I hiked 1.5 miles to explore a "bucky looking" ridge.

Re hanging meat: two reasons mentioned but not explicitly separated. One is to cool, the other to protect from big meat eaters. As everyone in this group knows, inches of space off the ground on sticks or brush is all that's essential to cool.

It is hunter-gatherer time of year and I love it. 14 year old grandson killed a 5x6 Roosevelt bull evening before last with a 25 yard bow shot, Olympic Peninsula, WA.

Added: Oops, missed Alaska Lanche's post made while I was (slowly ) composing mine.

Yup, want to drive home to Nelson, my cousin, a VERY successful hunter with several Elk racks in his workshop that just BLOW my elderly mind and a trapline all around the town, wants to take me and my light camp into a spot and I will stay there, alone, for 5-7 days and hunt Elk, Mulies and Whitetails by myself.

Then, IF, my .338 thunders and I am lucky enough to "make meat", a call on my cell and he or one of his workers can bring a 4x4 plus ATV to haul out the boned meat.

We were there last October, it was STILL horribly hot, bonedry and NOTHING was moving. My buddy was totally sick from flu, I was barely over it, we could hardly eat and he finally said,"enough" it is 500 miles home and I can barely drive".

[bleep] happens, and we came back, then, the following week, my cousin, George, called and told me of SIX BIG mutherluvin' bulls shot there, all by guys I grew up with......but, it had cooled off and they began to "sing" later then they used to.

I HATE hot weather and will NOT shoot an animal for antlers and waste even one ounce of meat, so, all the different tricks here are of great interest to me, one learns every day.

Trekking poles, damn, these young guys are smart, I can see this working and it is something I have never even imagined!

Since that's Barry, I'd guess in AK.

I met the gentleman in Missoula at the first ever BHA rondy.

Butt Humpers Association?

No, that would be your outfit.

Grab your favorite top loader and take a swim. You'll feel better.



Travis

BHA is Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. BHA works to protect habitat, and to keep wild lands wild.

Good organization with a great cause.

http://www.backcountryhunters.org/

Dan, you nailed it.

Here are a few pictures from the week long trip, more to come soon with some final thoughts before the actual review.

Bloody pack pictures as promised, Metcalf being put to the test. 4 quarters bone in with cape and skull.

To answer the bone in question, I usually bone out every animal I take. However it was necessary to get out quickly as we were wet and my partner was getting cold quickly. The storm looked like it was getting worse and we were only a few miles from the truck at that point.

The pack was so heavy that I had to put it on sitting down, then roll over and push myself up from the hill.

Nice!

So you've just got all the meat stuffed in the main pocket then? Where did you end up putting all your gear? Sorry for the dumb questions... I'm trying to decide whether or not it'd be worth selling my CrewCab and getting a Metcalf. The side zip thingy look really nice.

Tanner

If you are debating the Metcalf vs. Crew Cab, Metcalf wins every time in my mind. It has functional shoulder lift for most people.

Are your gaiters tucked into your boots? Never seen that before...
That can't be compfy on the ankles...

No, they are over the boots, as designed....

Are they 2 color?

Heavy pack and wet snow.. disaster recipe.. and you made it out. Well done.

Yeah, blue on top, with black cordura type material on bottom. Outdoor research, the pic does look like the black color is my boots.

I brought the Micro Spikes for that reason alone. The certainly helped keep the footing.

Do you have any pics of you swimming across the river with the pack on your way out?

Sorry...couldn't resist.

The side zip on the Metcalf looks bitchin'.

What did that pack weigh on the way out?



Travis

Metcalf. End of story.

See your local recruiter and there are about three chances in a hundred you'll find out, you [bleep] MT puss.

Take a Knee,

What do you just read a lot of Rambo books to come up with all this bullchit.
Seems like you talk a lot but at least Travis and the others have actual PICTURES to back it up.
Without pictures you are just a big mouth making a lot of noise.

Honestly i didnt weigh it. Obscenely heavy is accurate, well over 100lbs.

GFY silly boy.

Here's a couple Metcalf photos from this past 2 weeks..

Not to say the other options aren't great - as I've got limited use with any of them. I do really like this one - it's certainly the best option from MR right now.

Scott,

Nice job. I remember when we used to have Mulies in Montana.


I'm thinking you're thinking the same thing on the Metcalf. If the stays were RIGID it'd be a frigin good pack?

Is running the Metcalf without a lid a pretty decent option? I have a lid but wouldn't mind saving the weight without it.

Tanner

So how does the Metcalf's load lifting capabilities compare to the Longbow? I've used my Longbow with a top lid for the last 3-4 years on my 4 day stints, I like the Metcalf's design but I need more pockets. I guess I need some reinforcement to talk me into a Metcalf bag.

To answer all the questions at once....

I wish the stays were more rigid, and that the frame itself were lighter.

The Longbow has no functional load lifters. Metcalf wins with me every time as a tall guy.

I really like the top lid option, but every one i own will go under the knife. I have no use for all the extra material or shoulder straps. They could cut a pound out right there!

Thanks sreekers.



Travis

Great info on this thread; tag for future reference.

Metcalf......that be me.

I really like this thread and the reviews on the packs, but now I'm starting to feel like the Longbow was a bad idea, with all the negetivity towards the NICE frame. I feel like it fits me fine at 6', a hell of a lot better than Badlands, Eberlestocks or the old Blacks Creek packs could have ever dreamed of. I just got done doing a 4 day stint here in the high country of N Utah with close to 55lbs in it and our camp was about 7 miles in, the other packs i mentioned above would have killed me to do that.]
Maybe I'm just paranoid!!!???

Not at all.

I used to use Badland and Eberlestock too. MR is a huge step up from that. I know this from my own experience.

The next notch up is Paradox and Kifaru.

Then McHale. I still want to steal Wes's pack when he's not looking.

Mystery Ranch is heads and tails better than Badlands, Black's Creek, Eberlestock or whatever else in that category we can throw out there. Yes, I have used them all. Save up some cash, buy a top end pack, you won't regret it.

Kifaru is built around their reputation for comfort and customer service. Paradox is a new company built around function and a comfortable belt. Stone Glacier has been around now for a year and they are building a following based on the light weight pack/load shelf design. Mystery Ranch still hangs it's hat on how tough their packs are, and rightfully so, I could throw my Metcalf off the cliffs my buck jumped off of and expect it to still haul the load out.

There is one question and one question only - does it work comfortably for you? That is the only important thing. I have used about every brand of pack out there. There are two that I use regularly and comfortably, that according to most internet "experts", should not/could not be in the same stable of packs for any sane hunter. Those two are my Kifaru Timberline 2 and my Mystery Ranch Metcalf. As much experience as I have, I too keep telling myself that the Metcalf should be crap; but, it is light and comfortable. Go figure. It truly is amazing the amount of gear that worked just great for us before the advent of internet forums is now, potentially, crap in one's mind just because of reading the opinions of others.

That looks like a very comfortable pack.... IMO

It took me a while to get it adjusted right small increments at a time with a heavy load to get it to ride on my hips more than my shoulders. I agree it could use some load lifters (longbow) but I can carry 40-55lbs with it almost all day without no neck strain or back pain, couldn't have done that with my other packs.

The review is almost done, we are in the process of some of the final editing and then it will be ready for submission. This thread will be the first place that I post the link.

I think you'll be just fine with what you have.


Travis

Can't wait to hear how the waist belts compare. The lumbar pad on my bikini frame sometimes doesn't get along with the bulging disks in my lower back.

Tag

There will be plenty in the review about the belts, and there is a whole section that shows just how well each belt, harness, bag, etc. measured up.

This has been quite an undertaking, but it is worth it to sort through the strengths and weaknesses of each pack. Our goal has been from the beginning to help the backpack hunter find out which pack will serve them best based on needs. We don't want this to be a fan boy review, but to be honest about each pack and let you all sort through our results.

I am lucky enough to spend a LOT of time in the woods and on the trails from spring to early winter and have a backpack with me on every trip. If we can put our experience and real world use into writing, mission accomplished. Gear doesn't make a hunter good at the task, but it can make him more comfortable and confident. This review should help buyers looking at these packs decide which one is best for their needs and be confident in their purchase.

We will be doing some long term follow up these packs as well. I have an elk tag that runs clear into December and if I can shoot straight I will be able to pack out a few more and give more feed back here.