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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59 |
"Your already screwed" is really not the proper mindset to have if you expect to prevail. My thought exactly.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1 |
I just had some guy try to tell me how much better a Kahr sub compact 9mm is than a snub nosed .38 Special. First he tried to tell me the 9mm was "so much" more powerful. Then I explained when both are fired out of 3" barrels, expansion and penetration are pretty much the same. Then he said his Kahr holds 6 rounds, and I pointed out that Taurus makes a 6 shot snub, and there are always the Colts. Them he said its all about the reload time, but neither of us could think of an instance where a civilian was saved by a faster reload. I also pointed out my HKS speed loader is plenty fast. He was still convinced that his Kahr was more powerful and just "better". I'm happy he's confident in his choice, I think it's a good choice for a pocket gun. But a guy who knows how to effectively use his DA revolver isn't at any disadvantage. I have both, the 38 Titanium gun with a 12 pound trigger in a 14 ounce revolver can make it a bit tough regards gilt edge accuracy but for sure its fine for belly to belly distance A PM9 with a bit lighter trigger stretches the good hit distance for me and the second, third, fourth shot are just faster as I don't need as much time to recover from the recoil. E also has a point, drop the revolver on the cement and then try it for sure.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
Drop a revolver, like your smiths and Colts, on the sidewalk and 50% of the time they won't fire when you pick them up. Source?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1 |
I really think it a personal choice. My Model 60 with full house 357 mags (125g 16ish grains of H110) is a nasty little thing. I can however still keep all five into 3" at 25 yards. Go to wadcutters and it will shrink to 2". I really don't know the LEO manual of arms, my background is military. One handed reloads are not something taught at least in my time. I do not feel at a disadvantage nor under gunned. My background says if you are down to pistol range you're already screwed. was that double action at 25 yards?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1 |
I expect he has done it, I think he is a retired cop.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
Well an old Nazareth song, I'm going to go down fighting. Prevail is the desired outcome. If it comes to pistol range then all tactical advantage has been lost. IE you are at a distinct tactical disadvantage.
Last edited by smithrjd; 09/08/13.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
I prefer SA, but am practiced with DA. The S&W has a pretty good DA trigger, much better than the DAO autos I have fired. Also easier to correct most revolvers when the DA trigger is not so good. Again one of the choices we make.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,531 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,531 Likes: 1 |
Here's why I don't carry revolvers anymore:
1. More bullets is always better than less. If you don't need them all, so be it, you can't know that ahead of time, more is still better than less.
2. Since I am not Jerry Miculek, I can reload a semi much much faster and smoother than a revolver, with less fine motor skill, even more so with only one hand.
3. After shooting bunches of ammo thru many examples of revolvers and modern semis, I have seen nothing to make me believe revolvers are more reliable than semis, perhaps have seen the opposite, and when a revolver gags, it's a lot harder to clear.
YMMV
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
Double action at 25 yards for me depends on the load. 38's, 38 +p, 357 defensive loads about the same. Full house 357 mag opens up to about 6". Depends on the day, some better some worse. Timed rate of fire SA vice DA is not really that much different. Now if the range closes to say 7 yards then no difference.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,428 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,428 Likes: 6 |
If you can draw it really fast without snagging it on anything, and then after drawing it really fast and without taking the time to adjust your hold put the first one or two shots where you want them to go, all while your brain is registering the fact that you are really and truly, not just make believe after some little stress test or having a loud noise in your ear or running a few yards but really believing and understanding that this is your one and only chance to live or die, with all of the psychological fog and motor skill degradation that comes with that, then I suppose either one will do.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,350 Likes: 1 |
really good shooting a 25 yards with a Model 60. 2 inch barrel?
Last edited by jimmyp; 09/08/13.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
One of those awh S**T moments. Thankfully I have only had one that I thought would qualify. Women comes pounding on the door bleeding everywhere from a face wound screaming help me help me. Dude comes in right behind drunk and abusive I'm going to kill the b***h. Goes right at my now wife's Grandfather. Got the 1911A1 and got in between the two and told him that if he did not back off I would plant him right now right here. Thankfully it was in a state that understood home defense. She was OK, he went to jail. Wife's Uncle left the scene when the women came into the grandfathers house.. 34 years ago and we were not yet married.
I normally like a revolver, but the 1911 is a good one . Not really a BUG, and they do jam. It was what I had at the moment.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
3" barrel and bigger Pachmeyer grips.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1 |
Kevin, regarding your Cobra, shrouded barrel? Factory or aftermarket grips?
DMc 1965 make, so no ejector rod shroud; which is my preference. Factory grips for now.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1 |
Drop a revolver, like your smiths and Colts, on the sidewalk and 50% of the time they won't fire when you pick them up. Source? That will only happen if you manage to drop the gun precisely on its RIGHT side, and that's not real likely since most revolvers are muzzle heavy. Revolvers aren't quite that fragile, but they are easier to take out of action.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,133
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,133 |
I love my 1950's Colt Detective Special, and even my Taurus stainless M-85...but I have to admit that I shoot my Springfield XD-9 subcompact better - much better. And even with my "Calif. Compliant" mags, it holds 10 rounds plus one. There is not much difference size-wise, either.
�That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.� George Orwell
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,600 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,600 Likes: 1 |
I no longer carry any revolvers for self defense purposes. As a backup gun or at close range, there is not much difference except that the revolver has an edge for contact shots. Once the range starts increasing, my Sig P938, with its excellent high profile night sights, outshines even the full sized, 4 inch .38 Special revolver I carried back in the day, at distances to 25 yards. (I am not talking bullseye shooting but USPSA/IDPA type shooting.) With the Sig I also can carry a couple of reloads very discreetly. With the subcompact auto I feel as though I have flexibility to deal with a wider variety of threat situations.
By the way, I can almost say the same thing about the Springfield XDS .45, except that it is a larger gun than the P938, and I have yet to find good night sights for it.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 632
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 632 |
Thanks Dan, good info to have. Had both in hand at a store, leaned a little towards the Kahr, appreciate the input.
"The day I went to work everybody showed up to watch Johnny Luster work. Well, they had a wheelbarrow there, and said I was to push that thing around all day. I looked at it, then turned around and headed for the mountians..."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,150 |
Of the two, the Kahr is the most comfortable in the hand for me.
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Soure ? Personal observations of many of both on the street. E
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