Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why has the 358 Win not faired as well as 35 Rem

ChipM,

I had one of the .35 Remington 170's for a while. Got it for a real low price at a store here in Montana, since not many Montanans like pumps, and really don't like pumps in "woods cartridges." Had to do some gunsmithing to make it feed reliably, but managed, and it would group about any bullet into 1-1/2" or less at 100 yards. But somebody eventually made me an offer I couldn't refuse....

Here in the thickly wooded Northeast the 358 Win still has a strong following. It's known for being a "better" .35 Remington.
I just had a spare Remington 7600 re-barreled/chambered to 358 Win with a 20" Kreiger. I'm running the 200 grain Hornady SP based on multiple trusted recommendations. I would like to also try the 225 Partition when I can find some. It should be noted that our average shots are 100 yds and under, although I would have no reservations with this caliber out past 200.

Dave

Last week I purchased two boxes of 0.358" 220gr Speer bullets. These should keep my 35 Rem and Whelen perking through the 2013 season. I imagine they would also work well in the 358, but I don't have one of those at the moment.

I have yet to experience the performance of the 35 Rem on game, but hope to this year. But I do know for a fact that the Whelen is a thumper.

Easily.

My furthest shot to date was on a cow elk @ 257 yards using the Sierra 225. One shot and she tipped. This on a mature Roosevelt.

Sighted in at say, 150 yards and running a CDS or similar scope system, hitting and killing at 300 yards or so wouldn't be a big deal.

Well, somewhere on the fireplace mantel @ my camp there are 2 200 gr. Core lokts that were taken from a maple tree after they passed thru a 130lb. 8 pt. buck. 1 is slightly bent and the other conceivably could be reloaded and shot again. They came from 35 Rem. factory rounds. But that was 40 yrs. ago. I still would like a 35 rem. with the proper bullet.

That would explain why I got .35 caliber holes in and .35 caliber holes out with very little damage in between on the 6 or 7 deer I shot with mine.

I have never had a 200 grain round nose Core lokt fail to expand on a deer and have shot several with my Marlin 35. One was an 85 lb doe. Very interesting...

My experience with the .35 was 35 years ago. Perhaps the bullets were different back then ? I dunno. What I do know is I was extremely unimpressed with the results I got from the .35 Rem.. Went back to the .30-30 and have been happy with it's performance ever since.

I did not know that. Thanks. I do know it was effective and accurate.

Do you have an idea as to why it is so soft? Thinking on it I wonder if Nosler assumes most of the time it will be used on deer, but I don't know.

I would be guessing but I think it may have something to do with the cost of the ammo. A box of factory .358 Win, runs about $50-$60.

I do not own anything in .358 WIN, but I do own a Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen that I load to shoot more like a .358 WIN. I use the REM 200GR SPCL. Over the past decade I have taken more deer with that rig than any other.

Don't get me wrong. I love my Whelenizer However, it seems to be a tad more than needed for whitetails. Loaded the way it is, it nets out as an expensive alternative to a 30-06.

A member of Mensa once told me "The greatest burden of being gifted is the expectations of others." I think that applies here. The .358 WIN and the 35 Whelen both SEEM to be superior to their parent cartridges. There MUST be something bigger or better to them, right? Well, truth is, on an average deer, the bullet goes in, rattles around a little and the pops out the other side and the deer falls over dead. More recoil? Yep. More expensive ammo? Does it kill 'em any deader? Nope.

The first deer I killed with the Whelenizer was a 205# buck with a withered foreleg. I plugged the beast with 4 rounds of carefully prepared 200GR PSPCL and the poor thing just stood there defiantly. It finally fell over, but got back up a bit later as I was exiting the stand and I was about to put a 4th round down range when the buck finally succumbed.

Now, if someone at that moment had told me I'd been a stupid fool for picking 35 Whelen, I'd have believed him. Truth is, it was just a fluke. Shot placement was fine, expansion was fine, I had a decent hole on the far side. This was just a stubborn buck. The problem seemed bigger, because this was supposed to be my new super .35 caliber DRT-enabled super-duper WHELENIZER.

Here is the rest of the story from back then:
Hubert D. Buck Meets Mister Whelen

Over the succeeding years, I've come to realize that most of the hoopla of shooting a 35 Whelen at whitetail deer is expended in the dirt on the far side of the animal. It takes deer just fine. I switched after 2005 to the roundnosed 200 grain SPCL Remington, just because I had to do something and blaming the bullet seemed like the cheapest solution. However, I've had decent success since and I have never lost a Whelenized deer.

What I experience with my 35 is probably what happens on a larger scale with 35's in general. Folks get them, because of their reputation and the idea of bigger having to be better. They shoot them at whitetails, experience a bit more recoil, a bit more expense in ammo and realize the deer are not falling over any faster. Word gets around camp. Nobody runs out and gets another.

Not like either are going gang busters.

The 35 Remington was chambered in quite a few rifles at and right after the turn of the century and had established a reputation and following.

By the time the 358 winny rolled around in 55 look at what the competition was and what was coming out. I think it just got lost in the times but then there are a lot of good rounds that never caught on well despite their merits.

I have a 336 in 35 Remington and a Remington model 8 as well but have always wanted a Winchester 88 in a 358. It would be like the others a fun nostalgic weapon to own and play with from time to time.

Never hear much about 35 Rem down here.
A few .358 Win's out there.
Pretty good pig medicine in my part of the world. Most shots range 50-200 yards.

The only big lever gun I like more than my .358 is my Model 71 .348 Win. They both are game stoppers.

Well, I have four rfles in .358 Win. and three in .35 Whelen. Pretty much says how I feel about them. I like the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in the Whelen, an elk slaying combo supreme.
Kind of wierd on how I got into the .35s. I was sitting on a log in a swamp on the Olympic Penninsula in Washington state on an elk hunt.The thought ran through my head that considering the conditions I'd been seeing, I got the feeling that I'd have been better off with a .358 Win. and 250 gr. loads. For some reason I was losing confidence on my 30-06 with 180 gr. Partitions.
Shortly after the hunt and I was back home in Arizona, I was at work on the swing shift reading the want ads and there was a Ruger M77 .358 Win. for $250. It was too late to call so I cut the ad out of the paper, stuck it in my wallet and promptly forgot about it. Early stages of CRS disease I guess. About a week later I'm digging though my wallet and came across that ad. What the hell, it's probably gone but what the hell, I'll call anyway. I called and damned if they still didn't have it. I gave them my name and told them I was on my way. Big surprise was the gun was in a pawn shop and was NIB. Not a scratch on it. It sits in a McMillan stock these days, not because of the factory stock but because that piece of wood was way too pretty to ding up in the boonies. I now have a mate to that one, another M77 I just happened to fall into, a Browning BLR and a Savage M99. My Whelens are a Ruger M77, Remington M700 Classic and a custom Mauser I picked up at an estate sale. It's been my go to elk rifle ever since.
In case anyone's interested, Mule Deer has a good article on the .35 Whelen in the latest GUNS Magazine. Good job John. Your loads come quite close to mine.
Paul B.

Buddy of mine has a .358 BLR topped with an Aimpoint red-dot. He calls it "Killer." I don't know how many elk it has taken, I'm guessing somewhere between 12 and 20. A couple of black bear. A couple of mule deer.

The "little" .358 Win is one heck of a cartridge.

Guy

My Ruger M77 358 Win is a favorite and certainly one of my most versatile rifles. I've used it for hunting elk, deer and hogs. My most accurate load is 225 grain Nolser Partition over Ram Shot TAC. It works well with a Leupold VXII 2-7X33 scope and is a pleasure to carry.

I have always wanted one of those, I am so jealous that is a beauty!

Today yes the price is a huge difference but was it so much more even just 10 yrs ago? My point being while at today's ammo market price it will surely add to some decisions I don't know how much that played into it's failure to progress years ago. I do like the idea though of the Whelen being able to be loaded down to 358 win performance or bump up to it's full potential with the only drawback being it a long action. One of these days I'm going to get me one of them just for the sole reason I think the round is old school cool and a bit different. It's been interesting in reading all the comments.

Had a Marlin 336 in 35REM, it was a great lever action rifle. I was happy with both only one day I needed $ and sold it.

I think the bigger question is ... why is 7mm and .308 so popular while 8mm and .35 are not. ?