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Good and natural to ask questions - of God and of man, including Christians of course - but need to be careful in considering the "answers" provided by humans, including Christian humans. Even those who mean the best and are steeped in Scriptural knowledge are far from knowing and understanding it all - no pat answers there. God has that knowledge, and wise men seek it.

Yes, people will do what they need to do to make it through this life and I agree that it is not our lot to demean or attack their beliefs or religious practices as long as those do not negatively affect our lives and well-being. Although Christianity is a lot about how one should live this life, the focus for Christians is beyond this life - eternity - and the eventual Knowledge.

Good post CCCC. Steve as quoted no one has all the answers but I will give you my view in a nut shell.

God never intended men to live with any evil. In Heaven when God is completely in control, all evil is done away with. God gave the earth to man and man let evil in. Everything God does now is through a man because man has the control of the earth. When that time period has expired in which God has given man control, God will take back the earth and fix all the problems. The earth still belongs to God, but we in effect are leasing it. God would be unjust to take control before the lease runs out. God can help when we ask for help through grace and faith but that doesn't mean we can do anything we want and cry for help every time our deal goes bad. God wants us to live a way that will keep us from those problems in the first place.

I don't believe God uses the devil as his enforcer, to teach us or keep us in line. I do believe God teaches us even in our difficulties just as a parent would use a child getting burned on the stove to teach them. The parent does not want the child to get burned but he would be foolish not to use it as a lesson. All things work together for the good of those who love God, but only because God is constantly working good , even in the midst of destruction. God didn't cause the destruction, but he will use it to teach and turn it to his purpose of good if we will allow him.

RH, Good as answer as any. May we both sleep well.

You didn't miss it and neither do I... in the context of scripture being used for ulterior motive, Satan or man.

Jesus could have left volumes to be corrupted.. instead he left his biological and spiritual footprint... an lesson through life and death.

Simple, inclusive and uncorruptible.

Kent

A saying I've read is:

Suffering is God's blessing upon you. He's trying to teach you something!

a use of the quick reply window.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I do not believe God intends for us to suffer, though he surly knows we will. In my view God doesn't put suffering on anyone. The earth is cursed because we let evil take control. Bad things happen to good people because we live in a fallen world. Jesus, told us to be of good cheer, because he had overcome the world, but we rarely trust completely in him.

Suffering is not a blessing. If it was, we should all pray for more suffering. The blessing does often come through suffering, but only because when we suffer enough, we surrender and turn to God. We could surrender at any time if we weren't so full of pride.

Disbelief is healthy. It shows one has not given up.....

It' not only allowed, it's essential. God created evil. Evil is necessary for God's purpose, which in regards to man, is to separate the wheat from the chaff. But I believe His purpose for all of this is far beyond that.

Not so we might have free will, but so we could use it or misuse it. Choices. That's probably what you meant, but that's how I look at it.

Nope. That, and things more terrible, gross, perverse, and disgusting, are side-effects of humanity and their inablities. God didn't give rise to things such as you mention, though He knew they would happen. We have the ability inside of us to stop them, but don't/can't/won't.

None of this is about us, but about Him. We are simply a device for His purpose. I don't know exactly what that might be, but have some guesses. Anyway it's His ball, His game, His rules. Play to win, or play to lose, or pretend you (rhetorical you) aren't playing. Everyone is a player and there are no timeouts, draws or mulligans. One rule: Love. Four impossible letters. To get over the impossiblity, there is a substitution: Jesus. Accept what and why He did what He did, and you're in.

There was evil in heaven. God created it, Lucifer embraced it, and a bunch of angels along with him. They got kicked out, but I beleive God lets them in from time to time. Maybe not. But the ability to turn from good/God, will always exist. But once those who do get to heaven see the deal they get, I believe evil will become moot.

Some people believe everyone will go to heaven. I hope that's true, but believe it's not. I Don't condemn anyone. If a person has breath they have a chance and I hope they all find a way to sort it out and take it. Condemnation will happen when there is no chance and that's God's job.

I'm hoping to put some meat in the freezer and can some, this year. I hope you are successful, too. If I get out, that's success enough, but still would like some meat. See how we are?

Ricky
I don't hold the same views of God creating evil and interpret scripture differently. Just as CCCC said before, even Christians have very different beliefs about certain aspects of scripture. The important thing is that we agree we need a savior and his name is Jesus.

I didn't post to argue so let's leave it at that and encourage everyone seeking answers to delve into the scriptures and through prayer and communication with the author, find their own answers.

Sam's got a clue! Sam's got a clue!

....leaning on ones own understanding, which He says won't be healthy for long.

Does anyone else find is rather interesting that Scott started them mess then dropped out only to post how nice it is that kids wear Christian Tee shirts on his bus.

Wonder why he lets those awful Christians on his bus.

Plate said we should step outside the cave in order to see the real world, and not just he mere shadows of this world. It is the organized Clergy that would herd us back into the cave.

As for Jesus, if he did, he sold it:
Luke 18:22 ...sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

I know that. We've had this discussion before. Amicably, I believe.

That's something we agree on, too.

And there's another.

Thanks brother. I just thought we might should give an example of how to disagree. I wish you well with your hunting season. I'm not going until it cools off a little here. It's been in the 80's but very humid the last few days. I've been replacing a floor and sweating about 2 gallons a day.

The idea is not that God willfully brings suffering into our lives. This is kind of simplistic, but it's more like he set up a bunch of invisible fences. You can run and play around all you want in these areas, but get close to the fence and ZAP! You suffer. He's not stopping you from going there, you have free will to do so, but if you go there it hurts. Like a little kid learns not to touch a hot stove. God's telling us these are the places we shouldn't go. Not physically, like don't go to Las Vegas, but emotionally or spiritually or whatever other way you want to look at it.

Again, this may sound a bit silly but two of the best explanations of how the world is set up came from Jewish comedians, Henny Youngman and George Burns.

"God, it hurts when I do this."
"Then don't do that!"

At the end of the movie "Oh, God", George Burns as God is leaving and John Denver asks him the meaning of life or something like that. God says, "Look, I've given you everything you need to be happy. The rest is up to you."

Others are welcome to their views, but those work for me.

You naively assume that Scott/Steelhead doesn't know EXACTLY what he's posting and exactly what he's fishing for. He's a Master Baiter.

As to the inevitable next question, how about little kids with cancer or some horrible disease not of their own fault, or populations massacred by despots or something? I don't know.

Earlier in this thread (I think) it was mentioned that we aren't really this human body, we're only trapped in them for a while. The object of being here is to recognize that and overcome it.

So you all will have to ask God about that first paragraph here when you see him. I just accept that he's got a reason that is beyond me, and let it go at that.

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