Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Jesus Christ

Earlier, someone wanted to know why someone why non-believers would choose to enter this debate. Jim demonstrates how, like a billion other people, he's completely willing to suspend the use of his reason and logic and critical thinking, when it conflicts with a 4k year old book. Jim seems like a decent guy, and I do not suspect he would reason an critical thinking for any other literary work that conflicted with his sense of right and wrong. It's when the Bible is understood as man made literature we can examine it's deeper implications for the human condition.

Many - maybe most - of us have sensed a Spiritual Dimension "over yonder", or "right here" at different points in our lives. We taste that "peace that passes all understanding", and realize that WE have created all the conflicts in our minds.

I believe that "that dimension" is Reality, and is our real home.

But... that's not where we live now.

It is right and proper that we consider THIS as reality, and the suffering of the aforementioned afflicted child as being real and horrible, and we should do whatever we can to alleviate it.

My speculation stops right at this point.

I have no answers beyond what I've stated here.

Because I have no more questions.

And...... it is MY answer. It may not satisfy any other human on this earth.

Actually fireball I think Scott f does know exactly what Stoolhead had in mind when hrs started this thread.
And to be honest it might have took him a little longer than some but I think he has seen the light on our little friend.
But I could be wrong cause after all I'm nothing more than a hypocrite.

I am tracking with you brother. Fight the good fight.

That was directed in order to be perfect.

Anyone who thinks a man or group of men sat down and wrote down the perfection exhibited in the parables of the Bible with out a superior force will have eternity to contemplate the temerity of their stupidity.

No sir, I have not assumed that at all. I know he started this thread with the intent to demean and slander good people. His condescending looking down his nose and everyone but himself while belittling the beliefs of others is a long standing pattern.

What all were Christians called either out right or by inference in this thread?

Wake up folks, this was a trolling post from the first letter typed in the subject line.

A few christians (lower case by intent) have hurt him in the past. I wish I could find the post where a christian slammed Scott buy telling him his sister was in Hell. Therefore he infers that all Christians are bad.

Well, they did have something, but I'm just not sure I would call it a "superior force". The earliest portions of the Bible were set to paper around 1450BCE, but Cuneiform writing goes back to around 4000BCE giving the Bible authors 2500 years of literature to draw upon. The flood story of Gilgamesh was written around 2500 BCE, preceding the Biblical version by over 1000 years. Many of those Biblical parables and stories had already with stood the test of time before they were ever written in Hebrew or Greek. It's no mystery, good literature often draws from history and old sources that was are already familiar and comfortable with.

BS

One only need to look that he (scott/stillhead) feels compelled to atempt insult to those who choose to believe in something good. tells you all you need to know about him.

My signature was derived from what romans 1:20 means to me. ANYBODY that spends time outdoors has to believe there is a god but for some they equate god with his church and his church isn't perfect, or they don't want to be accountable or don't like the idea of or have understanding of how he works. I don't have much figured out but when I'm outside in nature I know there is a god because design demands a designer. I studied other religons but only 1 has been God seeking man not man seeking god. To me Jesus make way more sence that all the other (religons). I don't think christianity is a religon its a way of life and Im not very good at it most of the time. Like my signature says I'm an idiot but it not that hard for me to understand. I know who jesus is and I don't really give a $hit what somebody else thinks of him or me. I got plenty of issues so dealing with myself is a full time job, I don't need to worry about some one else.

Yep. You have it nailed. A troll plain and simple. Always follows these with a few warm fuzzy kitten threads to regratiate himself to the cheerleaders. A master of deception, trickery, and insincerity.

Yep, that he is.

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The highly educated are more likely to lean on their own explanation (understanding) and be misled. They know it all and can't make a hair on their head.

Should we then be willfully ignorant,so that we don't learn to much and become non-believers? Might sound strange, but I do know some people who actually find this logical.

The Lone Ranger and Tonto went camping in the desert. After they got their tent all set up, both men fell sound asleep.

Some hours later, Tonto wakes the Lone Ranger and says, 'Kemo Sabe, look Towards sky, what you see?


'The Lone Ranger replies, 'I see millions of stars.'

What that tell you?' asked Tonto.

The Lone Ranger ponders for a minute then says, 'Astronomically speaking, it tells me there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Time wise, it appears to be approximately a quarter Past three in the morning. Theologically, the Lord is all-powerful and we are small and insignificant. Meteorological, it seems we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What's it tell you, Tonto?'

"You dumber than an Obama voter. It means someone stole the tent."

You know, I've never read the Bible, at least not the whole thing. I read the first 8 books or so of the New Testament (love the first four) but got tired of Paul's self centered attitude. I've also read some selected verses in that portion that is a collection of Jewish history and mythology. The Psalms are very pretty and I really like them. But while a lot of the things in the first four books of the second part are great, the whole book is not what I'm going off of.

I have read the Tao te Ching - great book! - and the Bhagavad Gita all the way through, the Tibetan Book of the Dead (boring!), the poems of Jalal al'din Rumi (only other poet I ever liked besides e.e. cummings), some writings of Marcus Aurelius, Emerson's essays, Tolstoy, some 20th century psychologists like Jung and a bunch of other guys not affiliated with any sect or religion whose names escape me at the moment. I spent an entire summer reading "Psychological Commentaries on the Teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky" - all five frickin' volumes! I've also dabbled in physics, how this universe works at the atomic and smaller level - Hawking and Michiu Kaku can explain it without talking down to you.

FWIW, I have been a computer programmer and analyst for 32 years now, I make my living dealing with stone cold logic.

But ultimately "Reason" has nothing to do with it. I am convinced there is a higher power and ultimately this higher power is benevolent. This higher power isn't owned by any one sect or religion and our wars and hatred and destruction to prove otherwise probably make this higher power just shrug his metaphorical shoulders and say, "whatever".

Folks who do not accept this higher power try to prove rationally why there is no higher power and that's cool with me. I just finished a book titled "The History of God" by a very scholarly ex-nun who traced the attitudes and evolving beliefs about this character or thing commonly known as "God" and the Greeks, some sects of Muslims, Jews and Christians have all gone round and round about that for 4,000 years. They try to prove he exists philosophically, they try to prove it rationally, they eventually all give up and just say f*** it, he exists so don't worry. Then a few hundred years later some more folks try to do it all over again.

Along with the age of reason in the 1700's a lot of folks said, "if you can't see, hear, touch, taste or smell it, it doesn't exist." And we're still very much in that period.

I'm not here to convince anybody one way or the other. And I don't want to hear from those folks who want me to accept their image of this God. A favorite prayer of mine is "God, please save me from those people who want to save me." My salvation is my business and someone else's salvation is their business and not my responsibility.

I just know that this higher power exists. I'm not going to say why I know because I'm pretty sure that proof presents itself to each person in a way unique to that person. As to exactly what this higher power is and what it's all about - the hell if I know! An ant understands the inner workings of a microchip far better than we can understand the workings of this higher power. That's another conclusion everyone in history who was serious about this came to.

Again, I'm not here to convince someone else yea or nay. But I have spent five years studying this, seriously. Since 2008 I have devoted my life to finding out what people in all places and throughout history have learned and thought about this. Seek and ye shall find. So I sought - earnestly, that's the whole key - and just let chance and intuition guide me as to where to look next.

Folks who lived 1500 years before that Jewish carpenter was born, folks who by physical location never heard of Jesus will all tell you the same thing about the human condition as he did. They tell you how to be happy here and now, not "do good and you'll get a pass to a Golden Gated Community in the Sky by and by". As Pascal's wager states, if doing good helps when I'm dead, cool. If not, oh well. But I lived a happy life. At least I've learned how to live a happy life. The first 50 years sucked, but these last five have been great and it gets better with each passing day.

So, if I lose Mr. Pascal's wager, so what? I have learned to relax, I don't harbor hatred or anger toward people, I wish them well no matter what religious sect or political stripe they are. Not because I'm afraid of the Big Guy in the Sky and his retribution like the old Jews were and a lot of fire and brimstone Christians will tell you today. I have learned to love because someone, something, somewhere, set it up so our anger and hatred only hurts ourselves.

But all this transformation happened because I just accepted that there is a higher power. That doesn't stop me from believing in quarks or dark matter or evolution or anything else our scientists, men of reason, have discovered. But in our arrogance going back about 300 years, we think we know it all. There have been geniuses and educated people throughout history and each one thought he "knew it all" - flat earthers, Greeks and their earth, air, fire and water, et cetera. I just believe that there is something "out there" we can't discover through physical exploration. "Out there" is really a misdirection - you have to look inside yourself. The Indians and some Chinese are a lot better at that than we are, btw, and they're not even "Christians".

Well, sorry to take everyone's time if you've managed to make it this far. But again, what you all believe is up to YOU. Don't let anyone berate you into their way of thinking because I guaran-damn-tee they don't know what's best for you, only you do.

So if someone doesn't want to believe there is a "God" - I think that word sucks because there is way too much emotional crap attached to it, we need a different one - but if someone doesn't want to believe there is a higher power, that's really okay with me. I am firmly convinced that there is.

How do you mean ignorant. He refers to it as leaning unto our own understanding. We are free to study and learn. In fact, He said we would do miraculous things. That doesn't mean to put our knowledge above that of the Master.

Many dont wish to deal with the restrictions being a Christian makes on them and use the fact a "Christian" mistreated them as an excuse to blame Him. Whether it be a Christian or heathen, God said to only depend on Him. .

Ignorant as in avoiding education. It was stated that the highly educated would be more likely to be mislead, so I was simply asking if it would therefre be wise to avoid too much education.

Jim in Idaho has said what I think much better than I could write it.