Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Barrel Life....Stainless or Blued????

On hot and high powered magnums...which lasts longer: Stainless or Blued?

What about a caliber like the 17 HMR? What is the barrel life like and would Stainless last longer?

I think you would have to get a metallurgist to give you a definitive answer on this as it is a very broad question in the sense that many variables could be introduced that would affect the correct answer. I do know that most barrel makers consider CM stronger than stainless (try to get Krieger to make you a pencil barrell in stainless.) However, I think this is consideration of tensile strength for safety reasons and not erosion resistance. Obviously, the conditions under which the rifle is fired is another consideration as well as numerous other factors. When all is said and done, I believe heat, bore smoothness and cleanliness are major factors in barrel life.

Here's what arguably the most knowledgable guy in the barrel business has to say about it:



Boots knows his stuff.

CAS,

This is excellent info....thanks a ton....

On the side, I really makes me happy that I chose Chrome-moly for my 325 WSM...as it will be my Alaska rig.

I know a lot of competitive shooters who also HUNT but use only stainless also when you build a custom hunting rifle with a CR Moly barrel you have killed its resale value as only a small percentage of hunters (none of the competitors that I shot with last weekend for example at the 1st 1000 BR match of the season use them) use anything but SS in its various forms. If you are going to keep the rifle forever then no worries but you have to ask yourself why do the people that compete that drive a lot of the innovation in this sport only use SS? Something to think about. Go to 6br.com or Benchrest Central and do a search on this topic --- you will be impressed at the data available. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BH,

Yeah, those Chrome Moly barrelled rifles don't bring dick for resale.

This one was $12,000

This one is $15,000

How about one for $25,500.

Damn, imagine if they had held their value well.

Look s$%^*&m head you are comparing rifles that for the most part do not see heavy field use unless you are a King or maybe a Prince but many of my hunting rifles run into the 2 to 4 thousand depending on actions etc but they are SS. How many competitions have you attended where non SS was being used? Yeah that�s what I thought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I am sure you want a rifle like the ones you posted links to take to Alaska--yeah right. Go blow hot air up the south end of a north bound mule as you are selling but I aint buying! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Give Miller or Echols a call. Chit chat them about serious using rifles built with CM Barrels. Also ask them about resale value. People make money buying and selling those rifles.

CAS, the comment about stainless being easier to machine is exactly what Bill Leeper will tell you. He also says that that is why certain (he named names) barrel makers will recommend stainless barrels over CM. More bang for their buck.

On a related note Charley, that barrel that Bill turned for me averages .5" smaller groups (avg 1.25" to .75") with the same box of ammunition than before. Bedding blah blah, can all be taken into consideration, but the bottom line is I don't think it hurt that barrel any.

Chuck

Here is what is on Broughton Barrels site--these barrels are winning quite a bit the last few years but for what its worth and I have a few of them on my rifles along with others but more to read:

Quality Craftsmanship.....Extreme Accuracy....

Customer Satisfaction.....

We at Broughton Rifle Barrels / North Manufacturing Co., Inc. are dedicated to crafting one of the Premier Stainless Steel Rifle Barrels in the U.S.A.. For any serious shooter, be it a Hunter or Target Shooter, having a rifle built with quality components is a must. If you are wanting to build a rifle with a premier quality barrel that will give the shooter the edge they need to shoot that trophy mount or shoot a small group, then you want a Broughton Rifle Barrel.

Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Crucible Stainless Steel. They are pulled button-rifled, triple stress relieved and hand lapped with a uniform land and groove diameter up to 0.0001" from breech to muzzle. Our muzzle is NEVER larger than our breech. The exterior of the barrel can be finished to your specifications from rough turned to a polished finish.

We offer a variety of land and groove combinations for most twist in calilbers 22RF to .375 . We are continually adding new selections to meet the demands of new bullets and cartridges. Please give us a call at 920-922-4882 for specific combinations.

In 2004 we introduced .224, .243, .264, .284 and.308 caliber 5C (canted land) barrels. These barrels being shot are showing exceptional clean ability, more velocity, reduced bolt pressure and extreme accuracy - shooting small groups at short and long ranges. We will expand this land formation into other calibers/twist that we offer in Fall of 2005. ***

Each barrel is crafted with the highest of quality standards. If a barrel doesn't meet our quality standards, it does not go out the door. From start to finish we track what is being done and the results to each barrel by serial number. If a customer has a question or concern about their specific barrel or would like a barrel simular as another customer, we can look it up and duplicate or correct the process. Our staff takes pride in every barrel we ship.

It is our commitment to you to craft the finest rifle barrel your money can buy. Give us a call at (920) 922-4882 to discuss your next barrel purchase. Quality, Accuracy & Customer Satisfaction is #1. We guarantee it!

Hey,$%@^# head, YOU were the one who brought up hunting rifles, now you want to bring competition rigs into it. If you try hard, I bet you can stick to one argument. It'll be difficult, but try for a moment. They make pills for that, you may want to see your doctor (if you can afford it).

I know a lot of guys who have chrome moly steel barrels. I'd bet a pretty penny that they hunt a HELL of a lot more than you, or most anyone else in the US. I never said that chrome moly was my first choice for a hard use hunting rifle, it clearly is not. I just pointed out how ignorant your statement was that chrome moly barrelled rifles don't bring high resale. That, my friend, is a dumb-assed argument if I have ever heard one. Stainless synthetic semi-custom rifles lose half their value the instant they go out the door. Best quality blued rifles tend to appreciate over time.

I'm glad to hear you have rifles costing $2 to $4K. I've pissed away more than that on some projects that never saw the light of day.

Go ahead and try and reframe the debate, since you got bitch slapped so bad on your hunting rifle resale example. I have never, and will never argue that Stainless is inferior for competition guns.

The BR crowd has several reasons for using stianless, none of which include resale.

Chrome moly barrels need to be finished to keep from rusting. Since finish is not necessary in BR, most don't want to incur the added expense.

Many people set their barrels back after the throats are worn. This is much easier with stainless, as it doesn't harden in the throat like chrome moly does.

Barrel makers agree that stainless barrels will take a better internal finish than chrome moly. Whether this finish improves accuracy is open to debate, but it is what it is.

The list goes on and on, but hey, you shot a match last weekend, so you must know it all.


BTW, if you were really interested, I'd tell you about a guy who used an unfinished (except for the rust on the outside) chrome moly barrel to win a BR shoot. He did it just to prove it could be done. I had a conversation with the guy who made the barrel fro him just the other day, and we laughed about the looks that must have been on the other competitor's faces.

Hey,$%@^# head, YOU were the one who brought up hunting rifles, now you want to bring competition rigs into it. If you try hard, I bet you can stick to one argument. It'll be difficult, but try for a moment. They make pills for that, you may want to see your doctor (if you can afford it).

I know a lot of guys who have chrome moly steel barrels. I'd bet a pretty penny that they hunt a HELL of a lot more than you, or most anyone else in the US.

Well I guess that could be true but I do hunt on any weekend I am at the ranch esp at night for the feral hogs. This time of the year we plant food plots--1800 lbs of seed drilled just waiting for rain so you would really be an idiot if you go there as I have spent more hours hunting than I can literally remember---I hunt feral hogs 360(considered vermin here) when you and your buddies are hunting if you want to call it that �high fence� which we all know does not really count. I am fortunate to be able to shoot and hunt at any time I want and if you are not smart enough to realize that the competitive shooting game drives the technological improvements in the industry you are not really that bright and maybe you need to do some more research. I noticed you said buddies who hunt�not speaking from experience are we�how many of the barrel manufactures have you spoken with (did I see you at the SHOT Show this year or any other years�I was at the first one in Dallas as well but I digress?) or how many world class gunsmiths have you spoken to who would recommend a non stainless barrel over a SS for the use in Alaska? I think you had better go and eat dinner put down the crack pipe and do your homework as Mommy is calling you to dinner.

Now that is funny, a guy from Texas, who hunts over bait, accusing me of non-sporting hunting (high fence). We have real hunting out west. You should try it sometime.

Go ahead and call "hunting" hogs real hunting if it makes you feel manly. Having killed one or two myself, I know better. Infer from that what you'd like. I've spent a day or two afield, and I can hold my own.



Clearly this debate is going nowhere, since you seem bent on reframing the debate into something other than it's original premise. I emplore you to show one single instance, anywhere in history where I made such an argument. Like I said before, your doctor has pills for this concentration thing.



Here we go with the concentration thing again. I'm telling you, the pills will do wonders for you.


Lets just say one or two. There are several who have put their kids through college with my help. I can name more than a handful who would know me if you mentioned my name. Think what you want though. If you want to compare numbers of custom tubes in the stable right now, we certainly can. I'm not afraid.

You'd be hard pressed to find a custom maker I haven't bought from, multiple times. You name it, I've tried it.

BTW, we should define "world class gunsmiths". I am thinking that the guys at Holland and Holland, Rigby, Westly Richards, Steve Heilman, Duane Wiebe, Joe Smithson, and about 100 more would qualify as "world class". They seem to universally like chrome moly barrels, and would recommend that their rifles be taken to Alaska. Of course I never made the argument that chrome moly barrels were superior in adverse conditions.


One last time, because you're slow.

Stainless synthetic semi-custom rifles routinely lose half or more of their value the instant they go out the door. Even mentioning the compostiton of the barrel in relation to resale value is friggin moronic. If you're worried about resale value, you should not be building semi-custom stainless synthetic rifles.




I wish. My Mother is a "World Class" cook, though I can't get her to do it anymore. Retirement has spoiled her, and my parents prefer to dine out any more.



Well said, and I agree 100%. You are an idiot.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />..................

MtnHtr

And we wonder why the Muslims can't get along.

Well it seems that you are the typical guy who spends most of his time on the computer boards rather than shooting or hunting--quite a few people are like that and there is nothing wrong with it. You just need to understand you limitations as clearly your pocket book exceeds experiences in the field. One comment you made really is preposterous is to compare high fence and baited fields�here it is legal (I have not killed a buck except for a cull in 6 years and I have not shot a Turkey in 10 we have so many they are pests) but the real issue and one that you are so clueless about I will not enlighten you (maybe a little) is game management. I have forgotten more than you will ever know about this subject. We are about making the habitat better and then more and more B&C animals will happen something you will not ever experience hunting high fence.

We spent hours deciding on the types of peas the 1st time planted (based on protein content, drought and insect resistance) to name just one of the spring food plot components than you do on a gun project. Both the TP&W and DOW Biologists as well as the Game Warden who has keys to the ranch agree that our game management program (no cows) is a model to not only improve deer and turkey but quail and other animals that make up the Eco System here. When you just walk around throw money down and hunt in high fence as I expect you and your friends do then well you are in a different league than this poor boy from Texas. Because of people like me you rich boys in Cali have a place to hunt and play with your expensive toys so you should just thank me as you are truly a rank amateur and should refrain from making comments in this area. I will be in South Dakota this summer for the VH Jamboree and we can finish this discussion over a beer and Toro (yes I eat Sushi and love it).

Below is a slightly edited for obvious reasons a recent email exchange between me and our TP&W Biologist:

From:
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:07 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Gate Sign

My schedule is crazy right now with the deadline for wildlife tax exemptions coming May 1st. I�ll be making landowner visits everyday until the 19th. I should be able to meet after that. Let me know what days work well for you after the 19th.

Thanks,

Nathan
Private Lands Biologist,
(817) 641-

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 6:42 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Gate Sign

Great!! Let me know what your schedule is and we will coordinate. I start shooting competitions this weekend and will be out next weekend as well.

Thanks,

David

________________________________________
From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:20 PM
To:
Subject: Gate Sign

David,

How�s everything going?

We�ve got some new gate signs that we had made for landowners who are working with TPWD under a wildlife management plan. I wanted to get one to you for ya�lls place. They are pretty nice looking and they�re also reflective. Let me know when you have time and we�ll meet up to get it.

Thanks,

Nathan
Private Lands Biologist,
(817) 641-




I must say that H&H makes an outstanding product (my wife works for the company that owns them) and have thought about getting one but the employee discount is almost nil on that one and I do not hunt the Dark Continent but they are works of art.

Wow!I'm a bit slow what's a $%@^# head? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now how did I know just from the subject line that this would end up being a pissing match. CM vs. SS ranks right up there with "How to break in a barrel" or "how to properly clean your bore". Ask 100 different people and you'll get 200 different answers.

BTW CAS, by my talley you're up by 4 points going into the third round.

Oh my goodness fellas.....CHILL!!!!!

Although, it has been a laugh hearing you two go at it. Makes my "serious" debates kindergarten.

So, at this point, we still don't know if imperical data supports blued or stainless....although, I tend to lean to the original posting from CAS.

I don't give a rip what people are buying...Many times that is the result of great Marketing, and terrible Science.

I asked a gunsmith about 15 years ago which was better stainless or moly. He said chrome moly was better except it was worse for fouling.
I don't know from experience because I have only worn out one barrel in my life, and it was the original chrome moly on a 1977 Model 70, 7 mag.
But when is a barrels life considered over? Probably to a competition match shooter sooner than for a hunter?
I have seen a salt water marsh duck hunting guides M870 pump rusted all to hell, but for the most part with modern cleaners and lubes I think rust is from a by gone era.
Has anyone had a fire arm actually rust within the past 20 years?

Straydog:

Come for a visit to Florida. Everything rusts here.

- TJM