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My Father took my oldest brother and went to California, leaving my Mother with two other brothers, my sister, and me in her womb. He did quite well for himself, becoming President of an International labor union, but never provided any support for his Texas family.

He also became a Mason, and then a Shriner and was very active in that organization. His funeral in Fl. was a very elaborate affair.

He undoubtedly was a good man in many respects, but fell short in his responsibilities at one point in his life and never made any attempts at making amends for it.

It would be stupid of me to pass judgement on the Masonic Fellowship, or labor unions for that matter, based on the actions of one man, even my Father.

Even more stupid is making a judgement based on internet searches for sites with a clear bias.

I'm comfortable letting Franklin Graham's organization, Samaritan's Purse, exemplify what's good about Baptists, and extend that same view to the Shriner's work on behalf of sick and injured children.

"Bearing false witness" is too grave a matter to parrot internet B.S. as truth.


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place

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I am sorry to hear of the way your father treated his family, Gene. I don't know anything about the situation other than what you posted, but Masons are often reminded of the duty we owe our families. Wrong is wrong and the ring you wear or the fraternity you pay dues to, won't correct that.



"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

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I suppose anything a man defines his own life by is subject to scrutiny if his life falls short.

I hear that Major League Baseball players are devil worshippers, based on A-Rod's steroid use, and Chipper Jones banging anything that squat to pee.

The fact that anything TRH says is take the least bit serious, beyond where the G-spot is on his Pit, is beyond me.

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Some folks will see evil, conspiracy and malevolence where ever they look.

Some despise the good works of organizations and try to discredit them with false accusations.

Christianity being a perfect example, it's a large target here at the fire.

It's no big deal, people have opinions on lots of things, problem is they don't particularly care if those opinions are correct, so long as it fits with their world view.

Point is, we often reach conclusions based on our own bias.

If you are predisposed to believe a certain thing, you will search for facts to support that position, disregarding facts that disprove your preconceived notions.

Honesty ain't for everyone and open mindedness and admitting you're wrong is for fewer than that.

I'm guilty of it as well. We all are.

But I know for a fact that Masons nail babies to trees.




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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Other than Catholics, what other organized Christianity has condemned Masons that may well be members of their church?
Someone already posted where Baptists determined it was incompatible with Christianity.


No one person or group speaks for Baptists. Each Baptist church is autonomous, so pick another denomination to prove your point.

The SBC is just what the name implies; a Convention. It has ZERO authority over the individual churches since Baptists have a Congregational form of government.

You would be hard pressed to find a Baptist church with at least 30 male members without noticing a Masonic ring.


Spot on. I'm 60 and never once heard Baptists are the only denomination going to heaven in a Baptist church. I've heard it many times by others outside the church.


The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass

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Originally Posted by tedthorn
Lions Club
Elks Lodge
Eagles Lodge
American Legion
VFW

All state......whatever happens inside these walls stays here
At the cost of throat cutting and eye gouging??

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Originally Posted by curdog4570

"Bearing false witness" is too grave a matter to parrot internet B.S. as truth.
It is a long train of history, centuries long, that bears witness to the occult nature of "the craft" and the corruption it engenders in society and government.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

which is why it's been condemned by organized Christianity, nearly since its founding, as incompatible with Christ's message.


Not all Christianity. Many denominations have split over the issue of lodge membership. For example, the main reason the Reformed Churches of America exist is because the Christian Reformed Church wouldn't allow lodge membership of it's members. So, they split off and the RCA was born.

I happen to agree with the CRC.

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Here is the official CRC position:

There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture.

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You get a repeated beating and still enjoy kicking yourself in the nuts, thereafter.

Being your dumb-[bleep] whisperer is becoming a full time job.


The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward




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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Point is, we often reach conclusions based on our own bias.

If you are predisposed to believe a certain thing, you will search for facts to support that position, disregarding facts that disprove your preconceived notions.


I think this fits about 95% of the posts on the Hunter's Campfire that are gleaned from the news.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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I agree with the CRC position as well and you're right that this was one of the issues that divided the second wave of Dutch immigrants from the RCA but it actually birthed the CRC (and my hometown of Grand Rapids) when those dissenters of the second wave left Holland, Mi (& the RCA, Hope College, Western Theological Seminary) in protest.

There was also hymnody vs (exclusive) psalmnody, Christian schooling, and other issues.

They were right on lodge membership. Our allegiance must be to the Church of Christ first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
Here is the official CRC position:

There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture.


How could they know of the "conflict" unless they were members of the Lodge? Just curious.


"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Originally Posted by Calvin
Here is the official CRC position:

There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture.
Christ came not to bring unity but the sword of division. Folks need to make a choice.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matt. 10:34.

Jesus goes on to clarify that swords are for dividing some folks from other folks.

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Originally Posted by toltecgriz
Originally Posted by Calvin
Here is the official CRC position:

There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture.


How could they know of the "conflict" unless they were members of the Lodge? Just curious.
Yeah, because it's all top secret, right? Nobody knows what Freemasonry is actually all about. WRONG! Throughout history, high level Freemasons have found Christ, left "the craft," and wrote about its true nature.

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Originally Posted by toltecgriz
Originally Posted by Calvin
Here is the official CRC position:

There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture.


How could they know of the "conflict" unless they were members of the Lodge? Just curious.


EFW touched on it. Allegiance should be to Christ, and to Christ alone.

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This is one of those threads that makes me truly wonder where we are as a society.

Prejudice, intolerance, warped ideology, belief in conjecture and rumor, and grasping at anything that reinforces a belief even when overwhelming evidence to the contrary disputes it.

And then people wonder why our country is so [bleep] up.

Kooks reside in the right, left, and middle.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Point is, we often reach conclusions based on our own bias.

If you are predisposed to believe a certain thing, you will search for facts to support that position, disregarding facts that disprove your preconceived notions.


I think this fits about 95% of the posts on the Hunter's Campfire that are gleaned from the news.


I know that evidence needs to be overwhelmingly compelling before I will change my opinion, and a five minute blurb or some tosser spruiking certainly will not do it.
On the other hand I am more than happy to discuss the position that I and others take on a given subject, and if I think the other is a tosser or that his position is erroneous then I simply put him in the "f_ckwit" basket.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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So, how many prostitutes did you devil worshipping CIA, high level military intelligence member Mason relative kill if he actually existed?

Last edited by NH K9; 12/09/13.

�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Originally Posted by BLRNut
Well I had to chime in. This might be longer than most want to read , but please try to understand, this hit home hard and deep.

First off let me say I am not a Mason or a Shriner, I have hinted, but never been invited. I was one of those 9 month old babies who contracted that dreaded disease polio, long ago in 1942. I was one of the Lucky ones. After the next four years of the Sister Kenny treatment - wrapped in steaming hot packs, massage, and exercise - the only residual paralysis was a right arm that I was unable to use.
I attended a Shriner's clinic yearly from age 8. We drove 40 miles over twisting West Virginia roads, waited in the church where the clinic was held and my mother prayed every year that this would be the year the doctors would say, "We will take him, get him to Philadelphia." Then when I was 12 her prayers were answered.
My parents and I rode the train to Philadelphia. After a long examination the nurse said "Just leave his shoes and we will take care of EVERYTHING." AND THEY DID. For one entire year they did take care of everything. They feed, clothed, haircuted, exercised, Santa Claused, Easter Bunnied, and did their MAGIC. I went in unable to move my right arm, after 3 orthopedic surgeries, I was not only able to raise my right arm, I was able to bend my elbow. I went in the hospital making B's and C's in the 8th grade and came out to make all A's in high school.
The education Shriners gave far exceeded academics, they gave me the will and drive to succeed. I obtained a Ph.D. from Purdue University, taught college till I retired 5 years ago.

Masons, Shriners, their Hospital, the physicians, nurses, teachers gave me the opportunity to live the great life I have.

Even today sixty years later I still thank every Mason and Shriner I see, where ever I see them, I have thanked them at a rest stop in Alabama, to the Dallas airport. To me My angels wear Red Hats.

Until I read some of the comments other 24HCF members have made on this topic, I didn't realize the level of misinformation concerning Masons and/or Shriners. All I ask you who are seeking the truth is to visit one of their hospitals. Those children are there receiving the highest level of care any Health Care institution in the world can provide. That care is being provided at ABSOLUTELY NO COST to the patient or their family. Until you see the tears of the doctors, nurses, physical therapist and yes even that boy, as a 13 year boy raises his arm for the first time, you will never comprehend the wonders the Masons and Shriners do. Everyone of the Masons and Shriners I have thanked have all said, 'We need no thanks", even as tears streamed down my grateful face. Yes, even after all these years I get Choked up and tearful and I will always.
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not ... done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart ye that work iniquity."

- Matt 7:22,23

If you do good works for the glory of Freemasonry, it's like building your house on the sand, and it will not withstand the judgment.


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