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Campfire Sage
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So, how many prostitutes did your devil worshipping CIA, high level military intelligence member Mason relative kill if he actually existed? If I told you that I'd have to kill you.  PS He actually started his military work as a medic (only later recruited by intelligence). He likely saved some lives during his service as a medic at Normandy during the invasion. He was there on D-Day.
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Campfire Regular
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That's nice but Ringman and the devil quote scripture to make their points too.
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Campfire Tracker
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This is one of those threads that makes me truly make wonder where we are as a society.
Prejudice, intolerance, warped ideology, belief in conjecture and rumor, and grasping at anything that reinforces a belief even when overwhelming evidence to the contrary disputes it.
And then people wonder why our country is so [bleep] up.
Kooks reside in the right, left, and middle. I couldn't agree with you more. Religion is one of those things that I honestly believe what you get out of it a lot of times depends upon what your disposition and deportment are going into it. As a side note, I honestly cannot help but chuckle a bit when I read these kinds of threads. When I read of what guideposts God has hidden from most of us only to reveal to the true believers (be they Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, whathaveyou). What deliciously evil tortures He has in store for those who guess wrong on which religion/doctrine/etc. is correct.... well I have to say I cannot for the life of me understand how you would trust yourself around such a being for eternity. There is no way, no freaking way in the world, some of you hard core believers could be around an all knowing all powerful being of such temper for eternity without incurring his wrath. The way you folks carry on and argue and fuss and blow hot air? No way! Bwahahahahaha.  If God is all the things I hear him being made out to be by some of his most fervent believers half of them are going to end up being burnt to a crisp before a year in paradise is done. Will
Smellin' a lot of 'if' coming off this plan.
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Campfire Outfitter
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My FIL and his best friend drove the lodge van to take kids to the Cincinnati hospital for several years. Later both had moved to SC and drove the lodge van to the Greenville, SC hospital until my FIL's health was too bad to do it. My FIL was a good Christian man and his friend Jesse is the same. IMO the Masons is a good organization with some bad apples like anything else with humans in it. The church would be perfect without sinners but then would only be a building.
I was asked if I was interested in the Masons. I said no, "there are some people that really shafted me and are Masons or are protected by them and the snow will fly in hell before I call them my "brother"."
When you stand by a turd the stench gets on you in time.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Campfire Ranger
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maybe they tried to get him to swear not to tell their "secrets"
or you will willingly have your EYES GOUGED OUT OF YOUR HEAD what kind of group of people have secrets that require that oath?? Makes you wonder, doesn't it? If they're doing nothing that society in general wouldn't condemn upon hearing of it, why the need for that sort of secrecy oath? PS There are only two organizations that call what they participate in "the craft." Those are The Church of Wicca, and the Freemasons. PPS You folks in "the craft," why not just join something like you local Lions Club chapter? Not enough special "hands up" from an organization like that? not really cause one of the fraturnal organizations i belong to makes yah say something similar.....but we aint worshiping the devil either..... going by which local guys are involved with the masons here i wouldnt hesitate to join...guys of better moral character than most.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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My uncle had a fine reputation as a Christian man, as well. A Baptist. Well liked by all who met him. Loved his beer and loved to eat, though, which I guess is what did him in at forty.
I've never known a Mason personally, other than him, and he was always nice enough to me as a kid. Seemed a jolly and good natured fellow. I hear tell he got into quite a few fights before mellowing out, though, but mostly for good reasons, I hear, such as defending the honor of women, and such. Of course most of what I know of him comes from my mom and her twin sister, who were both crazy about him (he was their very protective big brother, sixteen years their senior), so they are likely a bit biased. His death was devastating to them and my grandparents.
My first exposure to this issue came while I was a practicing Catholic. Among the more traditional strains of Roman Catholicism, Masonry is a big no no, and they keep alive in their minds the Church's traditional condemnation of it, along with lots of literature (all bearing Imprimaturs) in support of said condemnation.
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Campfire Outfitter
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HERE is a link on a controversial report on Masons and the Southern Baptist Convention. Mike Funny how everyone missed this (at least to page 24ish) So, the conclusion is, apparently, that as long as you don't consider Catholics or Baptists to be Christian, then Masonry is compatible with Christianity. I can't believe this ignorance has gone 51 pages and counting, the answer to the OPQ is so obvious and easy to find. You don't have to know that Satan is deceiving you to be deceived, that's what Satan does after all.  Satan is a beautiful creature, at least until it's too late and then you see how ugly he really is. Here's a Catholic take on the same thing. It adds a little to the Baptist view. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htmHere's a little preview, but there is MUCH more:
The famous (or, rather, infamous) oaths that run through the entire ritual of Masonic initiation are more than mere promises based on personal honor. They formally invoke the Deity, and have for their object a man's total commitment to a cause under the direst sanctions. The Catholic Church sees in such oaths an inescapable grave evil. Either the oaths mean what they say or they do not. If they mean what they say, then God is being called to invert by his witness loyalties (viz., to Church and to State) already sanctioned by Him. If the oaths are merely fictitious, then God is being called to witness to a joke.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Here is the official CRC position:
There is an irreconcilable conflict between the teachings and practices of the lodge and those of biblical Christianity; therefore simultaneous membership in the lodge and in the church of Jesus Christ is incompatible with and contrary to Scripture. Christ came not to bring unity but the sword of division. Folks need to make a choice. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matt. 10:34. Jesus goes on to clarify that swords are for dividing some folks from other folks. Another reason why I'm not a Christian.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Outfitter
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You would be hard pressed to find a Baptist church with at least 30 male members without noticing a Masonic ring. Not sure that even Hawkeye is ready to accuse a Baptist congretation of countenencing Satan-worship. Next year, maybe.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
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The plural of elk is still elk. (Aimed at them, not at you.)
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well I had to chime in. This might be longer than most want to read , but please try to understand, this hit home hard and deep.
First off let me say I am not a Mason or a Shriner, I have hinted, but never been invited. I was one of those 9 month old babies who contracted that dreaded disease polio, long ago in 1942. I was one of the Lucky ones. After the next four years of the Sister Kenny treatment - wrapped in steaming hot packs, massage, and exercise - the only residual paralysis was a right arm that I was unable to use.
I attended a Shriner's clinic yearly from age 8. We drove 40 miles over twisting West Virginia roads, waited in the church where the clinic was held and my mother prayed every year that this would be the year the doctors would say, "We will take him, get him to Philadelphia." Then when I was 12 her prayers were answered.
My parents and I rode the train to Philadelphia. After a long examination the nurse said "Just leave his shoes and we will take care of EVERYTHING." AND THEY DID. For one entire year they did take care of everything. They feed, clothed, haircuted, exercised, Santa Claused, Easter Bunnied, and did their MAGIC. I went in unable to move my right arm, after 3 orthopedic surgeries, I was not only able to raise my right arm, I was able to bend my elbow. I went in the hospital making B's and C's in the 8th grade and came out to make all A's in high school.
The education Shriners gave far exceeded academics, they gave me the will and drive to succeed. I obtained a Ph.D. from Purdue University, taught college till I retired 5 years ago.
Masons, Shriners, their Hospital, the physicians, nurses, teachers gave me the opportunity to live the great life I have.
Even today sixty years later I still thank every Mason and Shriner I see, where ever I see them, I have thanked them at a rest stop in Alabama, to the Dallas airport. To me My angels wear Red Hats.
Until I read some of the comments other 24HCF members have made on this topic, I didn't realize the level of misinformation concerning Masons and/or Shriners. All I ask you who are seeking the truth is to visit one of their hospitals. Those children are there receiving the highest level of care any Health Care institution in the world can provide. That care is being provided at ABSOLUTELY NO COST to the patient or their family. Until you see the tears of the doctors, nurses, physical therapist and yes even that boy, as a 13 year boy raises his arm for the first time, you will never comprehend the wonders the Masons and Shriners do. Everyone of the Masons and Shriners I have thanked have all said, 'We need no thanks", even as tears streamed down my grateful face. Yes, even after all these years I get Choked up and tearful and I will always. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not ... done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:22,23 If you do good works for the glory of Freemasonry, it's like building your house on the sand, and it will not withstand the judgment. Another reason why I'm not a Christian.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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GRAMMAR POLICE !!!  I think it's Elk's Lodge ... the possessive form of elk and not the plural.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The famous (or, rather, infamous) oaths that run through the entire ritual of Masonic initiation are more than mere promises based on personal honor. They formally invoke the Deity, and have for their object a man's total commitment to a cause under the direst sanctions. The Catholic Church sees in such oaths an inescapable grave evil. Either the oaths mean what they say or they do not. If they mean what they say, then God is being called to invert by his witness loyalties (viz., to Church and to State) already sanctioned by Him. If the oaths are merely fictitious, then God is being called to witness to a joke.
Translation...we cannot stand the competition for your goods and loyalty.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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There seems to be a general problem with Man, mixing up Truth with personalities and action.
For instance, "because (insert famous, honorable person here) does it, therefore the (group, philosophy, or religion) is good."
And
"(Insert despicable person here) was a low-life scum bag who raped boys. Therefore the (group, philosophy, or religion) is evil."
What this totally misses is the imperfection of Man. It is worshiping a false god. The Truth is the only thing that should be worshiped - The Truth as in Jesus Christ who is THE Truth, THE Light and THE Way. I won't get into it right now who/what has the best handle on what actually is The Truth and The Way of Jesus, but needless to say that even though Jesus' hand picked disciples, like some modern priests, were terrible sinners (think about what Judas did) does not diminish The Truth.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The plural of elk is still elk. (Aimed at them, not at you.) Unless it is a title, as opposed to a species name. As in one elk or two elk, but it is Elk's home where the elks meet for a BBQ. I could be wrong though...where is Ken?
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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GRAMMAR POLICE !!! I think it's Elk's Lodge ... the possessive form of elk and not the plural. this....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The famous (or, rather, infamous) oaths that run through the entire ritual of Masonic initiation are more than mere promises based on personal honor. They formally invoke the Deity, and have for their object a man's total commitment to a cause under the direst sanctions. The Catholic Church sees in such oaths an inescapable grave evil. Either the oaths mean what they say or they do not. If they mean what they say, then God is being called to invert by his witness loyalties (viz., to Church and to State) already sanctioned by Him. If the oaths are merely fictitious, then God is being called to witness to a joke.
Translation...we cannot stand the competition for your goods and loyalty. There's no requirement that you be loyal to God. Freewill is a gift from God. Satan does not allow it.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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This is one of those threads that makes me truly wonder where we are as a society.
Prejudice, intolerance, warped ideology, belief in conjecture and rumor, and grasping at anything that reinforces a belief even when overwhelming evidence to the contrary disputes it.
And then people wonder why our country is so [bleep] up.
Kooks reside in the right, left, and middle. If your real life 'society' is anywhere similar to the Freakshow forum, God help you. Coming here, for me, is like visiting the zoo. Entertaining as Hell.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 31,139 Likes: 5 |
Well I had to chime in. This might be longer than most want to read , but please try to understand, this hit home hard and deep.
First off let me say I am not a Mason or a Shriner, I have hinted, but never been invited. I was one of those 9 month old babies who contracted that dreaded disease polio, long ago in 1942. I was one of the Lucky ones. After the next four years of the Sister Kenny treatment - wrapped in steaming hot packs, massage, and exercise - the only residual paralysis was a right arm that I was unable to use.
I attended a Shriner's clinic yearly from age 8. We drove 40 miles over twisting West Virginia roads, waited in the church where the clinic was held and my mother prayed every year that this would be the year the doctors would say, "We will take him, get him to Philadelphia." Then when I was 12 her prayers were answered.
My parents and I rode the train to Philadelphia. After a long examination the nurse said "Just leave his shoes and we will take care of EVERYTHING." AND THEY DID. For one entire year they did take care of everything. They feed, clothed, haircuted, exercised, Santa Claused, Easter Bunnied, and did their MAGIC. I went in unable to move my right arm, after 3 orthopedic surgeries, I was not only able to raise my right arm, I was able to bend my elbow. I went in the hospital making B's and C's in the 8th grade and came out to make all A's in high school.
The education Shriners gave far exceeded academics, they gave me the will and drive to succeed. I obtained a Ph.D. from Purdue University, taught college till I retired 5 years ago.
Masons, Shriners, their Hospital, the physicians, nurses, teachers gave me the opportunity to live the great life I have.
Even today sixty years later I still thank every Mason and Shriner I see, where ever I see them, I have thanked them at a rest stop in Alabama, to the Dallas airport. To me My angels wear Red Hats.
Until I read some of the comments other 24HCF members have made on this topic, I didn't realize the level of misinformation concerning Masons and/or Shriners. All I ask you who are seeking the truth is to visit one of their hospitals. Those children are there receiving the highest level of care any Health Care institution in the world can provide. That care is being provided at ABSOLUTELY NO COST to the patient or their family. Until you see the tears of the doctors, nurses, physical therapist and yes even that boy, as a 13 year boy raises his arm for the first time, you will never comprehend the wonders the Masons and Shriners do. Everyone of the Masons and Shriners I have thanked have all said, 'We need no thanks", even as tears streamed down my grateful face. Yes, even after all these years I get Choked up and tearful and I will always. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not ... done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart ye that work iniquity." - Matt 7:22,23 If you do good works for the glory of Freemasonry, it's like building your house on the sand, and it will not withstand the judgment. Maybe the Masons are right: For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15 The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17 I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work. -- Revelation 22:12 In addition, is it your argument the world would be a better place if all the Shriner just stayed home and prayed instead of actually going out and helping people?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/09/13.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You mistake worship of God for loyalty to some pricks wearing dress'.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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