Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Straight Poop on Masons..?

Idiots for what they believe?

Our people say swear or affirm.

Mike

After reading all the anti- masons arguments, I have a serious urge to become one.

Go get a drink and a snack. Watch this video (or as much as u can take ) and you will be "enlightened"...... not by Lucifer! all that u will see is facts derived from a book written by the #1 Freemason of all time. Albert Pike.

How do you manage to go there? Not looking down on anyone? WOW I can hardly believe this? This professor explains everything that Albert Pike writes in his own book on Free Masons . Fully explains that they admit to misleading you until you reach a certain level . Are you all going to cal TF49 a liar??? He has shared his own experiences with us (thank you)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q18iSz6mus

"Fully explains that they admit to misleading you until you reach a certain level"

There is a similarity with Wtxj post, my father's info and the above. While my father would not agree that he "misled" anyone, he would say that as one progressed upward, one would receive greater enlightenment. If one stopped at some level, one would not have received the "greater enlightenment." There is also the idea that as one progresses upward, one's "religion" would become less relevant. This is consistent with the info on Wtxj's post.

Perhaps something like this was my father's experience. By his own statement, his ideas about God and "salvation" came from the Masonic Order.

TF

�Americans have always had the sneaking suspicion that somebody was out to get us � be it Freemasons, Catholics or communists.�
Maggie Koerth-Baker author of �Before the Lights Go Out.�

5. They're A Satanic Cult
The mistaken belief that Masons worship the devil began with a historic French hoax carried out by Gabriel Jogand-Pages to embarrass the Catholic Church in the late 1800s. Pages faked a religious conversion and gained Church approval for writing anti-Masonic fiction under the pseudonym Leo Taxil. (He wrote about a secret Masonic sect that worshiped the satanic figure Baphomet. He also published the "diaries" of Diane Vaughan, an American Freemason who purportedly cavorted with devils.) Pages later confessed to his fraud.
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/bizarre/masons/gallery.html

I've watched quite a bit of this guy's lecture and it amazes me that he draws a comparison to the Third Reich and the Masons.
Amazes me because the Free masons were persecuted by Hitler.
He is also wrong om several other points , misleading on others, and outright fear mongering on still others.
In short, he is a snake oil salesman intent on selling his own brand of Kool- Aid.
Cat

There were many Catholic priests, monks, and nuns, in the concentration camps, too (a fact rarely given much publicity), yet the anti-Catholics impugn Catholicism based on Hitler having been nominally a Roman Catholic. That charge has about as much credibility as the defense of Masonry based on Hitler persecuting it.

I am not and won't argue "anti Mason" here just like I won't Old Earth vs Young Earth, Christianity vs atheism, or any philosophical question. As good a job as TRH has done in expressing his view (which I agree with) it is not even close to the ideal environment to exchange and explore ideas especially because as has just been shown "most" are not all interested in the other sides' reasons for what they believe and resort to personal attacks.

Edited to say, "most" should be be changed to "some". Kudos to those who responded with some moderation and without name-calling.

I am just eternally grateful to Hawkeye for demonstrating that Cat and the others are devil worshipers, for without this timely warning I would have otherwise thought them to very good people and thoroughly upstanding citizens.
Heck, I would have even kept talking to them and never known just how diabolical they really are.


Thank you Hawkeye...and God bless!

Interesting that you seem incapable of making an argument without grossly misstating your opponent's position. The word "they" in your quote was in reference to Freemasonry, not each member of Freemasonry. Quite an important distinction that I've gone to great lengths to clarify in this thread.

For example, if I accurately stated that The United States favors central bank manipulation of interest rates, you cannot from that assume that each citizen of the United States does. Again, quite a thing apart.

Actually fellow, your words made no such distinction.



Now either THEY do or THEY don't...after all you did not say some of them, and it would appear that you hold that THEY are Satanists.

Good to know what you think of the fellows you are chatting with, and that you are two-faced.

I'll freely admit that I know very little about masonry. I did some searching and came up with this site. The following is from there and describes the masonic religious beliefs. I don't claim to know for sure if this is true, but it it is,there's no possible way to be both a real Christian and a mason.
MASONRY & CHRISTIANITY


Below is detailed what the Masons believe about their source of authority, God, Jesus Christ, sin, and salvation and future life:

1. Source of Authority. Masons refer to the Bible as the "Volume of the Sacred Law" (V.S.L.), and it is considered an indispensable part of what is called "the furniture" in a Masonic Lodge. But the Bible is used only in a so-called "Christian" lodge -- the Hebrew Pentateuch is used in a Hebrew lodge, the Koran in a Mohammedan lodge, the Vedas in a Brahmin lodge, etc. Jim Shaw, a former 33rd degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible (referred to as "The Great Light"), but on the Kabala (Cabala), a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil also admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry. Albert Pike (see next), the man responsible for virtually rewriting the Scottish Rite degrees into their present form, said that the Masonic "search after light" leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs (Morals and Dogma). [HJB]

One of the great authorities on Masonry was Albert Pike (1809-1901), Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Supreme Council of Scottish Right Freemasonry in the USA and "an honorary member of almost every Supreme Council in the world" (Albert G. Mackey, 33rd degree, and Charles T. McClenachan, 33rd degree, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, The Masonic History Company, 1921, rev. ed.; 2:564). Pike authored Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, which was published by its authority. This compendium of official Masonic lore clearly traces Masonry to Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and other Eastern religions. Albert G. Mackey, co-author of Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, is also one of Masonry's highest authorities. In his Manual of the Lodge, he traces Masonic teaching back to "the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. ..." (Albert G. Mackey, Manual of the Lodge, Macoy and Sickles, 1802, p. 96).

In the final analysis, Masons do not adjust their beliefs to fit the Bible, the Bible is adjusted to fit their beliefs. A Mason's loyalty is never to God but to the Lodge. Coil has concluded that: "The prevailing Masonic opinion is that the Bible is only a symbol of Divine Will, Law, or Revelation, and not that its contents are Divine Law, inspired, or revealed. So far, no responsible authority has held that a Freemason must believe the Bible or any part of it." Masonry's only concern is that each person must swear by the most holy book he knows, so that he will then keep the oaths of Freemasonry. (See Endnote #2 again.)

2. God. Masons require one to believe in God to be a member, but the candidate is never required to say what god he believes in -- "Masonry ... requires merely that you believe in some deity, give him what name you will ... any god will do, so he is your god" (Little Masonic Library, Macoy Publishing, 1977, 4:32). Masons commonly refer to their deity as the "Great Architect of the Universe" (G.A.O.T.U.) or the Supreme Being. God is further described as Grand Artificer, Grand Master of the Grand Lodge Above, Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, or Great Geometer. (The "G" in the Masonic ring can refer to God; it can also refer to geometry.) Masons claim that the actual name for God has been lost (cf. Jn. 14:8,9; Phil. 2:9-11; 1 Jn. 5:20) [HJB].

3. Jesus Christ. The name of Christ is seldom referred to in Masonic literature, apparently due to Masons not wanting to offend their non-Christian members. Some Masonic leaders even teach that the Messiah will not be an individual, but "the perfection of the human race." One such leader thinks that the stories about various Messiahs have their origin in the most ancient of religious beliefs -- Solar Worship. Masons, therefore, consider the discussion about the deity of Christ to be an endless, futile argument. When quoting from the Bible, references to Christ are omitted, and prayer is never allowed to be offered (in a "well-ordered" lodge) in the name of Jesus Christ. Masons do not care whether a person privately petitions God or Jehovah, Allah or Buddha, Mohammed or Jesus, the God of Israel or the "Great First Cause," but in the Lodge, the only petition allowed is to the "Great Architect of the Universe." [HJB] Clearly then, Freemasonry does not believe that Jesus Christ is God, nor that salvation is available only through Him (cf. 1 Jn. 4:3). Freemasonry is a religion without a Savior.

At the heart of Masonry is a secret Luciferian doctrine which a Mason only comes to understand as he reaches the higher levels. Manly Palmer Hall, another of the great authorities on Masonry, writes, "When the Mason ... has learned the mystery of his Craft, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands. ..." (Manly Palmer Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 48). The Apostle John warned that those who deny that Jesus is the only, all sufficient Christ, and that He came once and for all in the flesh, have embraced the spirit of Antichrist (1 Jn. 4:1-3). That Jesus was not the Christ, but that He had attained to the state of "Christ-consciousness" available to all mankind, is again part of Masonry: "Jesus of Nazareth had attained a level of consciousness, of perfection, that has been called by various names: cosmic consciousness, soul regeneration, philosophic initiation, spiritual illumination, Brahmic Splendor, Christ-consciousness" (Lynn F. Perkins, The Meaning of Masonry, CSA Press, 1971, p. 53).

4. Sin. Sin is seldom referred to in Masonic literature. The reality of sin in the Biblical sense is denied (much like the Christian Scientists); Masons think that any "shortcomings" can be overcome by greater enlightenment. Yet in attaining the degree of Master Mason, the symbolism implies that a person is redeemed from the death of sin and sin's pollution. [HJB]

5. Salvation and Future Life. Masons think that salvation refers to being brought from the material to the spiritual; i.e., when man returns to "his forgotten inherent spirituality." Masons believe that the degree of Master Mason is symbolical of old age, which allows a person to happily reflect on a well-spent life and to "die in the hope of a glorious immortality." Because they deny the reality of sin, Masons see no need of salvation in the Biblical sense. They see salvation as a step-by-step enlightenment, which comes through initiation into the Masonic degrees and their mysteries. [HJB]

In the 19th degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, the initiate is told that attachment to Masonry's "statutes and rules of the order" will make him "deserving of entering the celestial Jerusalem [heaven]." In the 28th degree, he is told that "the true Mason [is one] who raises himself by degrees till he reaches heaven" and that one of his duties is "To divest [him]self of original sin ..." Masons clearly teach a salvation by works, or character development, not a salvation by faith in Christ alone. Even in the 32nd Degree, a Mason never can nor will find the "light" he is looking for.

Read it again, but this time taking the context into consideration. Look at the question being asked. The question was not "Does the membership of Freemasonry hold beliefs in conflict with Christianity?"

Now finish your nightcap and get to bed, punchy.

I have stayed out of this thread but have read most of it. For those who are believers in masonry, there is little that can be said to convince them that masonry and Christianity are not compatible. The argument, "it was good enough for my dad and my grandfather, that makes it good enough for me" does not make the two compatible. In 1992, I sat in a church service where masonry was discussed. An older lady made that very statement to the pastor about masonry. I recall that I was somewhat shocked. As a Christian, I look to the Bible as the authority. Of course, masonry is not mentioned in the Bible.

To the Christian, a cursory review of the writings of masonic leaders shows that masonry is a religion. The Christian faith is clear that there is one God, one Son, and one Holy Spirit that are one and the same. When masonry refers to the "Great Architect of the Universe" that does not mean it is referring to the triune God. This very fact alone makes masonry and Christianity incompatible.

The OP wanted to know if the two are compatible: no they are not. There are many masons who claim to be Christians and may very well be, but if these men seriously research the organization they have joined, they cannot help but to see that masonry presents another "door" to salvation that does not include Jesus Christ. Again, whether you are a Christian or not, masonry will accept you into its fold. To the muslim, GAOTU is Allah. To other religions, GAOTU is something else. To the Christian who might join, just because you are a Christian does not make GAOTU the God of the Bible. Using the Bible as part of the ritual does not make masonry compatible with Christianity. If you are to be a Christian, you must accept and believe on Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation. Any belief system or religion that offers separate ways to obtain salvation is counterfeit.

For those who are not Christian and have no desire to become a Christian, masonry may serve as an organization that offers fraternity and fellowship and even help in a time of need. But its root precepts are wholly incompatible with Christianity because it offers separate enlightenment which does not include Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on Jesus Christ who was God incarnate. There is no amount of earthly good masonry and by extension the Shriner organizations (and their hospitals) can do on earth to change the fact that they are not based on Jesus Christ.

Your words are what they are, and no amount of side stepping, blustering, huffing, and downright lying through your teeth will make them say anything else.

You stated that Masons are Satanists, and you left absolutely no wiggle room for misinterpretation...I am sure that those connected to the Masonic Lodges will be very impressed with your opinion of them.

Your bed, you made it, you sleep in it.


ps, and unlike your effort with my posts on that other thread, I did not change a single solitary thing in your post.

Have a nice day.

For a fella with no spine, you sure can run fast........in reverse.

Who and what gives you people the right to judge other humans??? Only one being has the power to judge and that being is SUPREME--GOD.

Oh, I would have thought the same of Lutheran and all the other denominations of Christianity...you know, the ones that actually claim to speak the word of God.

I am pretty sure the Micks have that particular niche tied up.

The man judged himself when he adjudicated that the Masons are Satanists, and keeps on doing so.