Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Romans 10:13

So we don't choose.

Is that why the New Testament is chockful of "choose this" and "don't choose that?"

Here I was, years ago, stumbling on the rocks, fighting thru the briars, trying to find a WAY that allowed for me AND my booze, since that was all I had going for me.

I finally had to just give up and lay down in the briar patch. Then, here came a guy thru the briars and said he would help me out of the briars. Just a step or two away was a narrow trail that was clear as could be once I spotted it. I must have crossed it thousands of times without really seeing it.

The briars I had been fighting were everywhere, with no clear definition. I had tried negotiating them using dead reckoning......... and wound up dead [for all practical purposes].

That's when the "strait is the gate, and narrow the way" teaching came to its full meaning for me. Rather than constricting me, it liberated me.

Then I also learned the truth behind "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". I've never had it so good.

Now and then I encounter guys who claim I got on the trail at the wrong place, or didn't get my ticket punched right so I've gotta backtrack and get "validated", or BAD things await me down the trail.

Does ANYONE reading this believe I'm gonna pay attention to him and change my mind?

The Guide who put me on this trail has EARNED my confidence over the last 29 years.

According to Ringman etal, since I came under conviction of the Spirit and was immersed in baptism when I was 12 years old, I was guaranteed heaven when I die.

Maybe so, but I sure put myself thru Hell here on earth.

I'm gonna take a break.

TWO idiotic teachings at once is more than I want to take on.

Read the "red letters . . ." (Matthew 6)

In every example you mention, there is not a single reference to a Biblical example to support your emotional theory. Why not simply believe and teach others what Jesus and his Holy Spirit led apostles taught and leave all the "battlefield theories" for God to sort out?

I don't know a single Bible verse that advocates that God has promised salvation to anyone except those who have obeyed him.

Ricky, Peter said it a bit differently than you in 1 Peter 3:21 . . . "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us . . ."

There are so many more scriptures that plainly teach that it is at the point of baptism where sins are forgiven, we put on Christ, we enter the church, we are saved . . . not "baptism only," but baptism as a result our hearing and believing the gospel, repenting of our sins, and confessing Jesus as the only begotten son of God . . . it really quite simple and clearly document with book, chapter and verse in the New Covenant.

Organized religion is��big business.

Its all about obedience. True love of the brethren and of God is obedience.

1 John 5:2-3

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You can't love other Christians and love God and reject his command to be baptized.

1 Cor 16:22

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Scott, two things I perceive from your statement above:

1. You are for baptism because you like it, not because it is a command of Jesus upon which one's salvation depends . . .

and

2. You believe the Bible teaches a way to salvation, without obeying Jesus (Mark 16:15-16) but you just cannot find the verse for which you yearn.

God's word is like a two edged sword that will torment you until you either obey or your conscious is hardened beyond hope.

Keep reading Gods Word. Read the Book of Acts and concentrate on the several examples of conversion. The truth will literally jump of the page at you. Don't listen to the words which man's wisdom teaches ... listen to the words which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing Spiritual things to Spiritual words (ASV). (1 Cor 2:13)

To everyone in this thread who has insulted another, I rebuke you. Studying together is a blessing we have, even if we disagree. If you have called another brother names, etc, you are here for the wrong reason and should examine yourself before responding again.

To those who have kept a level head and discussed things in love, thank you for your spirit.

Acts 19: 3-6 And he said unto them, "into what then were you baptized? So, they said, "Into John's baptism. Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentancem saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came unto them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Romans 6:3- Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man was crucifid with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that shall also live with HIm.

The above, further illustrates John 3:5 (in which he was answering Nicodemus about how a man can be born again) where he was describing the physical act of baptism as being buried in his death, and raised again (born again of water) John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven."

Colossians 2:12 also describes the act of being buried and raised in baptism "Buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead."

1 Peter 3:21 flat out states that baptism saves us " There is also an antitype which no saves us- baptism (not the removal of filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscious toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Mark also flatly states baptism is one part of salvation. Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." To those that state that since baptism isn't repeated, only believing is necessary, I point you toward James 2:19-20 "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble. But do you not know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

Jesus caused more to be baptized, physically than John the baptist. If it was not necessary, why would Jesus himself be baptized by John, and baptize those who wanted to follow him? Seems a rather pointless and confusing act if it is not necessary. John 4:1 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His diciples)" Also, if Jesus only baptizes with the Holy Spirit, why weren't all those believers baptized with the Holy Spirit, instead of being physically baptized by the disciples?

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Once again, baptism is commanded as a part of salvation (remission of sin)

Acts 2:41 "Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Why would they all need to be baptized? Also, it says the souls were added AFTER baptism.

Acts 18:8 "Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household, And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. Once again, why be baptized if believing is all that's necessary?

Acts 22:16 " And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Again, baptism is referred to as cleansing sin, one part of salvation.

Galations 3:26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you were baptized into Christ have put on Christ"

Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the age" Since, he directly commanded them to baptize others, then directly to them to teach them to observe things they were commanded, wouldn't that directly mean that baptism is commanded?


Every example of a conversion in the Bible is followed by baptism. If that isn't example enough for someone to believe they must be baptized, then nothing is. Do I believe that faith saves? Yes. Do I believe that it alone saves? No. Do I believe that baptism saves? Yes. Do I believe that baptism alone saves? No. Do I believe that either or both guarantee you a place in heaven? Absolutely not. Anyone can fall from grace.

Faith without works is dead. There is more than one requirement to reach the kingdom. If belief was enough, then Satan and all the fallen would be joining us there.

This is my last post on the subject. I do not place my faith in the instruction of men. I place my faith in the scriptures. They plainly state that baptism is a requirement to be a child of God, through plain, clear statements and through continuous example.

I hope that some reading this thread will open their Bible and read the entire New Testament. ALL of the commandments are important, not just the ones you choose to follow.

Insults started long before this thread and this is just 'another' baptism... he said, she said, self projectionist, scripture cherrypicking, out of context, God will damn you because you disrespect 'my' Jesus voice... Rehash...

John 3 5 is one of the most cherrypicked, out of context verses of all time. Doesn't even refer to baptism.

Nothing is more insulting than judging another person's salvation, Jesus strictly forbade it yet the same folks that say you must 'obey'... don't. When these 'damninators' do this claiming to speak God's word, they never convert and drive wedges between God and someone seeking him.

This ain't sunday school...

Kent

Several years ago, my friend "Ski" and his wife used to come pick me up every Sunday morning and give me a ride to their church � until one Sunday, I didn't go with 'em.

Haven't heard from 'em since.

Mrs "Ski" had already severed an old friendship between "Ski" and a close friend by snarling at the other fellow that he was "going to Hell" because he didn't believe something or other that she cherished. Wouldn't let "Ski" have anything more to do with his old friend.

I'm sure that that made Jesus look like the One to look-up-to. Uh-huh! Sure it did!

No, I was baptized because the Bible says I should. But even if I did it because the Bible says so I still found it a wonderful experience. I baptized others only after a confession of faith and they all knew why they were being baptized.



I freely admit that my views are just my opinions and I am not so stuck on myself to think I cannot be wrong. I have not searched for scripture stating I am right, I just put my faith in loving God.

I light of this I am thinking perhaps my time as a volunteer EMS chaplain were a total waste because some/many of those I tried to help fine the Way died. I never baptized anybody at an accident or shooting scene. I morn the loss of those I thought might be saved.

I will quit supporting the effort as of today. I will rethink my views and withdraw from this subject.

If I have offended anyone here in the thread than I sincerely apologize. It was not my intent.

I have to disagree. John 3 is all about Nicodemus asking how he can be born of his mother twice, referring to Jesus saying you must be born again. Again, I also list a supporting scripture. I also brought up numerous scriptures speaking of baptism being a commandment, not an option. Once again, from simple example, every conversion in the new testament is followed by baptism. I still haven't heard a good reason why we shouldn't do the same given those examples plus the scriptures.

Also, I have seen many, many converted from these type of discussions. But, if you bring insults to your discussions, I can understand why you haven't. They are totally counterproductive. Jesus did not teach us not to correct each other. He said not to judge someone's final destination because it is not our place. I am simply telling brothers in Christ, I do not believe their way is correct and hope they examples I have given will show them the correct way. The example of Philip and the eunuch is the way I try to approach these conversations. He read, but did not understand. And guess what, he was baptized. Although according to you, it was a totally unnecessary act that one of the apostles just happened to have taught him. I'm sure it was just mentioned in passing of course. Maybe he had horrible BO !

Constantly on my heart is the image of Jesus sitting atop a hill, gazing at the several churches in the dell, with all the hymn-singing, Bible-reading, preaching, personal testimonies, and other lauding references to what a great Person He is �

� and all the while, He's musing I just wish that they'd come up here and chew the breeze with Me.

I know that feeling!

Kinda reminds me of what I posted the other day...




Right now I do believe I could go for that soda. Maybe even a game of pool. Im pretty good! Might be able to take him

Somehow the word baptism in the bible always means water... and because of John 3 5... water means baptism... I guess God's word needs a thesaurus...

Wonder if the woman at the well knew her jug was full of baptism when she brought him a drink. Of course Jesus used the word water plenty in that conversation. Living water... Oh oh... what a tangled web we weave.

When folks cherrypick and then project their spin... It becomes just another sentence or paragraph... no longer God's word.

If I express my opinion of a verse and someone else disagrees... I don't pull the God word defense, I don't speak for God.

If anyone here has been baptized in water, then born in spirit because of it, then entered into the kingdom because of both... I'd find that interesting and willing to listen.

Kent

You're right, because reading a complete passage and taking its verses in the context of the story being told is cherry picking. Because when Nicodemus asks how he can be born from his mother twice and Jesus tells him about being born again, being born of water (baptism) and of the Spirit (when the Holy Spirit enters you). I doubt that Nicodemus was so dumb he had to have Jesus tell him unless you are born (the first time, out of the womb) and of the Spirit you could go to Heaven. Again, I gave another supporting scripture for the above. Along with every conversion in the New Testament being followed by baptism. Who is spinning whom krp? I don't attempt to speak for God, I let his scriptures do that. And if you want an example of someone who was baptized in water, then born in the Spirit because of it, then entered the kingdom of Heaven, you only have to look to Jesus, His baptism, the Holy Spirit coming to Him, and His entering Heaven after his death.

But wait, even Jesus' example isn't good enough for you. The Son of the living God's actions are somehow suspect and unnecessary.

[Luk 23:39-43 NASB] 39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."



Yet you refuse to believe this conversion.

Mike