Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Romans 10:13

You cannot meaningfully interpret this in isolation. Those who believe in The Lord also obey The Lord's commandments, one of which is to be baptized.

[Rom 4:1-13 NASB] 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

So are you saying if you fail to obey ANY of the Lord's commandments you are destined for Hell?

I've said I believe one should be Baptized, I disagree with those who say you can not be saved without being baptized.

Mike

To everyone in this thread who has insulted another, I rebuke you. Studying together is a blessing we have, even if we disagree. If you have called another brother names, etc, you are here for the wrong reason and should examine yourself before responding again.

To those who have kept a level head and discussed things in love, thank you for your spirit.

Acts 19: 3-6 And he said unto them, "into what then were you baptized? So, they said, "Into John's baptism. Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentancem saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came unto them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Romans 6:3- Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man was crucifid with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that shall also live with HIm.

The above, further illustrates John 3:5 (in which he was answering Nicodemus about how a man can be born again) where he was describing the physical act of baptism as being buried in his death, and raised again (born again of water) John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven."

Colossians 2:12 also describes the act of being buried and raised in baptism "Buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead."

1 Peter 3:21 flat out states that baptism saves us " There is also an antitype which no saves us- baptism (not the removal of filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscious toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Mark also flatly states baptism is one part of salvation. Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." To those that state that since baptism isn't repeated, only believing is necessary, I point you toward James 2:19-20 "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble. But do you not know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

Jesus caused more to be baptized, physically than John the baptist. If it was not necessary, why would Jesus himself be baptized by John, and baptize those who wanted to follow him? Seems a rather pointless and confusing act if it is not necessary. John 4:1 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His diciples)" Also, if Jesus only baptizes with the Holy Spirit, why weren't all those believers baptized with the Holy Spirit, instead of being physically baptized by the disciples?

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Once again, baptism is commanded as a part of salvation (remission of sin)

Acts 2:41 "Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Why would they all need to be baptized? Also, it says the souls were added AFTER baptism.

Acts 18:8 "Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household, And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. Once again, why be baptized if believing is all that's necessary?

Acts 22:16 " And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Again, baptism is referred to as cleansing sin, one part of salvation.

Galations 3:26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you were baptized into Christ have put on Christ"

Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the age" Since, he directly commanded them to baptize others, then directly to them to teach them to observe things they were commanded, wouldn't that directly mean that baptism is commanded?


Every example of a conversion in the Bible is followed by baptism. If that isn't example enough for someone to believe they must be baptized, then nothing is. Do I believe that faith saves? Yes. Do I believe that it alone saves? No. Do I believe that baptism saves? Yes. Do I believe that baptism alone saves? No. Do I believe that either or both guarantee you a place in heaven? Absolutely not. Anyone can fall from grace.

Faith without works is dead. There is more than one requirement to reach the kingdom. If belief was enough, then Satan and all the fallen would be joining us there.

This is my last post on the subject. I do not place my faith in the instruction of men. I place my faith in the scriptures. They plainly state that baptism is a requirement to be a child of God, through plain, clear statements and through continuous example.

I hope that some reading this thread will open their Bible and read the entire New Testament. ALL of the commandments are important, not just the ones you choose to follow.

To hit a target east of you, aim east, not south.

Especially in a duel.

When a direct statement is made, using krp's interpretation of John 3:5, babies who are stillborn, and babies who die during abortions before birth, shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

If Jesus thought Nicodemus and anyone who would read the scriptures was so stupid he had to explain to them that they had to be born and die before they could go to Heaven, then according to the same scripture, those who are not born before they die will not go to Heaven.

The notion is absolutely ludicrous and simple minded.

The problem with many is they have to complicate the simple and lead others down a convoluted path of confusion. Possibly Nicodemus was such a one and why it was pointed out he was a Rabi and leader.

I believe, one of the reasons Jesus came was to cut through the bullchit that man creates.

The truth is you must be born into the flesh and born into the spirit before entering the kingdom. Two processes to reach one place, and only one of those processes can enter. Simple truth sometimes must be explained.

Anyway, you need to rebuke yourself for being insulting...

Kent

So are you saying if you fail to obey ANY of the Lord's commandments you are destined for Hell?

I've said I believe one should be Baptized, I disagree with those who say you can not be saved without being baptized.

Mike

Normally not obeying a commandment is simply a sin. In the case of baptism, it is commanded as a requirement for the remission of sins and part of salvation.

Jesus was quite clear regarding its necessity for salvation. So much so that a disciple was delivered to the Ethiopian so that he could be baptized right then and there, then said disciple was whisked away to someone else that needed baptism. Sounds like it's pretty important to me.

" � blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. � whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." �