Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting The Paradox Pack Thread

Calvin

It depends on the fabric. For example , xpac is about 100 times more waterproof,than most tents. It's is about 8 to 10 times higher than standard goretex

No pack cover needed

Yeah, the material is waterproof not water resistant. Big difference there.

For those wondering why we use a non-waterproof side zipper in an otherwise waterproof-able bag....

A truly GOOD waterproof zipper that is durable is extremely expensive. Think drysuit scuba equipment, maybe kayak skirt zipper.

Most "waterproof" zippers are merely urethane coated zippers that are water resistant. The downfall here is that the urethane coating wears down and starts to separate from the zipper. These zippers wear out much faster than a standard zip.

What we use is a standard zipper, but in a vertical orientation, and we sew it in so that it is highly water resistant. In our testing water tended to enter through the stitch holes around the zipper instead of through the zipper teeth. Seam seal those holes and you've got a very water resistant (rain, not submerged or whitewater rafting) pack bag.

Get a roll top pack bag with no zipper and then seam seal it and it may be truly waterproof.

Roger that. What do you guys recommend for seam sealing?

I like GE clear silicone thinned in a dixie cup with some mineral spirits. Apply with a disposable foam brush.

Kevin may do differently, so take his advice over mine. He seam seals a tremendous amount of tents so he has it down pat.

Edit to add that some corn starch / talc (think windchecker powder) puffed on the seam after it is sealed removes any tackiness.

Permatex Flowable Silicone Windshield Sealant. Apply it with a little plumbers flux brush. Clean the seam with alcohol and let it dry first.

A few size comparison photos...the nalgene is a 1.5L for size reference.

This is the 4800 empty without extensions vs a 4800 with extensions and stuffed. There is a significant difference in how these setups function. Lowered and compressed the pack feels like a daypack.



4800 vs 6300, to show the size difference.



This shows all three shots side by side.




And finally, a quartering profile of the 4800 showing my preferred spotter / tripod carry.

Okay, great photos. For the first time I can see some real detail of these packs and get a feel for size. But some questions:
I'm not seeing the capacity I would want in that 4800 bag, but it also looks rather loosely stuffed. I'm thinking packing in a four day camp and using it daily in "daypack" mode. I don't see enough room there but then, I'm not a minimalist.
Is it reasonable to envision another drybag with sleeping bag and perhaps the tent strapped outside the main packbag?

Also, no "daypack mode" photo of the 6300. Can you just carry some day supplies in the Talon with the bag empty then utilize the bag for meat hauling if needed, without feeling like you're just hauling around a bunch of needless stuff. Not sure what I'm asking exactly. I don't NEED the bigger bag except to pack in. I could do fine with the smaller bag if I can strap on a couple of bigger items on the outside.

Yes, you can tell I'm searching for the "perfect" pack. I think this could be THE one but still undecided about the best bag.

One more thing, that rear picture, is that the day Talon or the new bigger Talon?

snubbie,

The 4800 is plenty big for me to do four days in. If you tend to be a maximalist rather than minimalist then get the 6300. For 2014 we're offering the 6300 as a roll top as well as a drawstring.

Yes, you can strap an additional dry bag, bear can, or whatever on the outside of the 4800. The most common places to strap stuff is under the bag compressed with the load shelf, under the talon on the front of the bag, or on top of the bag using over the top straps.

I didn't take a photo of the 6300 in daypack mode because it would have been redundant. It compresses down as small as the 4800. The Talon really sucks an empty pack bag up and controls it so it doesn't flop around and annoy you. It works well for that.

In those pictures I've got one of the first Day Talons. The newer Day Talons look a bit more refined with zipper garages, etc. We don't have good photos of the bigger Talon yet.

The Talon is bigger than I had envisioned from what I saw on the website. I believe I could get by nicely with the 4800. I could always strap the tent bag or sleeping pad outside.

These photos are great. This is the first time I've really been able to see the detail and size comparisons, in addition to the actual scale of the packs and bags when worn. The Talon is a good example. I've been seeing a little bitty "pod" attachment. It's bigger, and actually useful appearing, in these photos. Thanks for posting.
These photos need to be on the website.

Oh and Rockchucker, it's cool you're one of identical triplets. Your two brothers look just like you. I hear the odds of identical triplets is astronomically high!

Snubbie, the Day Talon is a great size for three season use IMO. It is a very nice daypack, running pack, and good for organizing and compressing the bigger pack bags. The bigger Day Talon will be really good for winter when you need bulkier gear.

I laughed out loud at the triplets comment. Triple the ugly!

Wait...
Is that Talon in the pictures what comes with the 4800 "package"?

Snubbie, are you talking about the $499 package?

http://store.seekoutside.com/paradox-evo-4800-roll-top-base-talon/

If so, then no. That package comes with a Base Talon, not a Day Talon. The Base Talon is a single compartment of 1000 ci with zipper access. It does not have its own harness so it can't be used as a daypack.

The Day Talon has two main zippered compartments, two other small pockets, and a large bladder pocket. Plus it has its own shoulder harness so it can function as a daypack.

The Day Talon is more expensive than the Base Talon because it is much more complicated to cut and sew. The Base Talon is cheaper and 8 oz lighter.

The ideal package to me would be the 4800 bag and an 1800 Day Tallon. Plenty of room for a spike camp and a boned out deer plus a day pack. I'd like to see that combo listed. When is the next sale?

But they're both the same size right? I really have no interest in using the Talon for a day pack but as long as it is the same size as the one in your pictures I'd be fine.

Will this pack be making its way to any of the sportsman and outdoor shows this winter, like the one in Portland? I'd love to see it in person.

Snubbie, the Day Talon and Base Talon are the same size. The new larger Talon is around 800 ci bigger.

Forkedhorn, we were at SHOT and ATA, and will probably make it up to BC for the wild sheep show, and will probably be at BHA as well as Trail Days on the east coast.

If anyone plans to attend any of those and wants to see a pack email or PM me or kevin_t and we'll try to make it happen.

Here are a few more photos. We should have videos etc in the next couple days.

A few of the details.
- All pack bags standard with covered side access zip. Very weatherproof. I would not consider it long term submersion, but should be fine for any normal wilderness travel. This zipper is optional, and you can choose to not have a zipper. There is not change in pricing. Get what you want.
- Expanded the Roll Top Sizing to include 6300 and 3900
- Added a lighter weight fabric (Tan)
- Universal Pocket Lid (shown in camo). Will be standard on Dual Draw string 6300 and an option on Roll Tops. It can be used on any bag, or on the frame with a Talon.
- Day Talon 1800 (Not Shown in any of photos)
- Optional Chamber pocket set can work with any pack bag.

Already in production are
- New harness
- Pals on Hipbelt
- Large Hipbelts

Kevin, in the first picture it says 3 lb.1 oz w/ 4800 tan bag, then 2 lb.14 oz w/ U.L frame. Are there two different frames? Please explain.

Good catch tkinak.

Yes, there is soon to be another frame option that shaves an additional 3 - 3.5 ounces off the weight. It is the frame I have been using the majority of the year. I would consider it fine for most everything as long as you are not crazy with it. The heavier frame is more resilient to abuse and is what I would choose if I considered myself hard on gear. I don't really consider myself hard on gear and the lighter frame still provides plenty of stiffness to support heavy loads.