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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1 |
Sent an email to Forbes asking about their new stainless steel rifles. Had heard a rumor that the rifle were not all stainless. Also mentioned the 243 and the silly 10 twist.
Me:
Sir,
I was curious if your new stainless rifles are all stainless, or if they use a chrome moly bolt with a stainless receiver? Also, I think it is a mistake designing the 243 with a 10 twist. I would be interested in purchasing a 243, but the slow twist holds me back from stabilizing the heavier VLD type bullets. The mag length is there, but I can't use it! If this was an 8 or 9 twist, I would likely buy one.
Thanks very much for your time!
Forbes:
The bolt will be an alloy steel bolt. You may be interested in the 7mm08 than, it has a 1/9.5 for that very reason. We may actually change the 243 but for now its going to stay 1/10. Let me know if the 7mm08 interests you, we use a 3" mag box in that model as well.
So. The rifles are not all stainless. Lame. The 10 twist 243 is, at least for now, here to stay. Double Lame.
Guess I'll just keep my rebarreled Remingtons and Kimbers. Fluted Bolt... triple lame, but the NASCAR crowd will love it no doubt. I was actually contemplating a 6.5x55 with chromoly receiver and stainless barrel until I saw they drank the koolaid and went with fluted bolts on everything.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
With it being marketed and sold as one of the lightest production rifles available, Do you think it's possible that the bolts are fluted to save a couple of ounces?
You are the only person I know who is appalled at seeing fluted bolts on ultra light rifles.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,243
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,243 |
I don't mind some fluted bolts but the Forbes version does look goofy to me. Maybe in person they look ok but the pics don't do it any favors.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1 |
With it being marketed and sold as one of the lightest production rifles available, Do you think it's possible that the bolts are fluted to save a couple of ounces?
You are the only person I know who is appalled at seeing fluted bolts on ultra light rifles. Funny, Melvin never saw the need on his ULA/NULA rifles... guess why? They save almost no weight (under one ounce) and collect and channel dirt and water. Unlike show ponies, I actually use my stuff...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Like I said, you are the only person shocked to see fluted bolts on lightweight rifles.
Personally, I could care less as I'm strong enough to hunt with a 7 - 7.50 lb. rifle and don't pretend that I'm a show pony climbing Everest on every hunt.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1 |
With it being marketed and sold as one of the lightest production rifles available, Do you think it's possible that the bolts are fluted to save a couple of ounces?
Wrong. Here's Forbes reply on Facebook to my question about the purpose of the flutes, and whether all rifles now include them: Unfortunately we are only making them fluted now. I can tell you Billy, the flutes on this rifle are very slight. So slight in fact that they didn't even change the weight of the rifle. We decided to flute it from customers requests. For example our AK and Canadian customers needed it so they could clear debris like ice in the winter, and that fine power sand found in TX. for our southern hunters. Also, the fluting on this rifle has the phosphate so it won't wear off and gives you about half of the raw steel exposure than with the old jeweled bolt. I hope this helps your decision to go with Forbes Rifle.NULAs don't need flutes. Forbes puts them on purely for bullschit looks.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,194 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,194 Likes: 1 |
American Rifleman show is on with a 30 min. Program about Melvin now. Inside look at NULA. Seems like an honest, decent, hard working entrepeneur to me. Sometimes there are business decisions that have to be made in order for your product to be both profitable and widely accepted and useable by a broad spectrum of consumers. For MOST folks, the twist rate will work fine. For MOST folks the CM bolt wont be an issue either. I talked to him earlier in the week about getting my Colt Light Rifle worked on, and was very impressed with the amount of time he took out of his busy schedule to discuss what will be a very low profit job for him. Free market economies are great... we have the choice to spend our money where we choose and benefit from a competitive market by getting quality, innovative products at a relatively cheap price. If you like the specifications of the Kimber better, buy one, if you like the specs of the Forbes, buy it. If you like neither, you can put a custom gun together to your personal preferences for not much more than either one.
Not many guys on here are going to be satisfied with any production gun out of the box, but the forbes looks like a good starting point if you like lightweight, abuseable hunting rifles. Me, Im starting with my Colt that I picked up dirt cheap and for another1200.00 im getting a quality barrel of my choosing, trigger, stock and bedding and the action slicked up so for a few hundred more than a forbes Im getting a gun to fit my needs.... If the Colt wasnt available, I could live with the forbes. For those same folks, the 8" twist for 6mm would still work fine, AND it would work for those who want to go the VLD way. So why not? Bingo. If you want the "one size fits all" approach, be careful which size you pick. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
When you buy production guns, sometimes you might have to make concessions. Personally, I don't care for fluted bolts, but like they say, it is what it is. Sounds like Forbes is listening and communicating with potential customers and may even make some changes accordingly.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
Pretty standard for bolts on stainless rifles to be cm. I know Borden actions are like that. It helps prevent galling Ruger and Kimber SS actions have SS bolts. I believe Winchester is SS as well. Remington is SS with CM lugs, IIRC. Pretty sure my Stevens and Salvages were not SS. They all got surface corrosion.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
What's the deal with the safety on the NULA/Forbes? I've seen comments about the guts being exposed. This along with the twist would seem like show stoppers.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1 |
You are the only person I know who is appalled at seeing fluted bolts on ultra light rifles. Like I said, you are the only person shocked to see fluted bolts on lightweight rifles. I said I thought they are lame and the NASCAR crowd would love them. Not sure how that translates in your brain to "shocked" and "appalled", but apparently it does... must be a tough way to get through life.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,343
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,343 |
If you asked for a fluted bolt raise your hand!
If you asked for a fast twist 243 or 260 raise your hand.
Fast twist wins. Who are they listening to?????
I think the more folks that ask for a fast twist the better chance they will put one out. I've contacted them and asked for a fast 260. If they truly listen to the few who asked for the fluted bolt it should be no problem to get a fast twist. Riiiigght!
Speak up! Send in your opinion. Facebook folks are ranting add your opinion. Send Rick at Forbes an email!!
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,137
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,137 |
If you asked for a fluted bolt raise your hand!
If you asked for a fast twist 243 or 260 raise your hand.
Fast twist wins. Who are they listening to????? You have to keep in mind that people on this site are a very small portion of the market. Joe Blow doesn't have a clue about twist rates and how they impact bullet choices, but he can show off flutes to buddies in hunting camp who think they're uber kewl.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,768 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,768 Likes: 3 |
If you asked for a fluted bolt raise your hand!
If you asked for a fast twist 243 or 260 raise your hand.
Fast twist wins. Who are they listening to?????
I think the more folks that ask for a fast twist the better chance they will put one out. I've contacted them and asked for a fast 260. If they truly listen to the few who asked for the fluted bolt it should be no problem to get a fast twist. Riiiigght!
Speak up! Send in your opinion. Facebook folks are ranting add your opinion. Send Rick at Forbes an email!! THIS!!!! I don't care about flutes but it sounds like they did it in response to customer requests...I can live with or without them. I would prefer stainless, but can live with the non-stainless bolt. A 1/8 twist .243 makes or breaks the rifle for me. It sounds like they listen, if you want a quicker twist, let them know....I did.
rcampbellforbesriflellc.com
cbozziforbesriflellc.com
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 209
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 209 |
Praire Goat,
The reason most makers don't use stainless bolts is that stainless is notorious for galling when two stainless parts rub on each other. This happens with all steels unless there are 10 points of hardness(Rockwell C scale) between two interacting surfaces. Most receivers are Rc 30-32, bolts would have to be Rc 40-42 which would
be very hard to machine in high volume. With stainless it would most likely require plating to prevent galling. As for the 8-9" tw.
more shooters use std. bullets than use VLD's for hunting.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1 |
What manufacturers don't use stainless steel bolts on their SS rifles? This keeps being mentioned, but all I've heard thus far is Borden and Savage.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 1 |
What manufacturers don't use stainless steel bolts on their SS rifles? This keeps being mentioned, but all I've heard thus far is Borden and Savage. Exactly... the early M700 SS's had chromoly bolts (plated - I had more than a few) but switched to SS bolts after a few years. It's a "solution" in search of an actual problem.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
What manufacturers don't use stainless steel bolts on their SS rifles? This keeps being mentioned, but all I've heard thus far is Borden and Savage. Exactly... the early M700 SS's had chromoly bolts (plated - I had more than a few) but switched to SS bolts after a few years. It's a "solution" in search of an actual problem. Genius, Why TF do you think Melvin never made a NULA with a SS action? Think he might have a tad more knowledge of metallurgy than you? The fact that former DOD engineers decided to go with a SS action/CM bolt, and the fact that the introduction of this iteration, which heretofore has never existed, is taking a while, is what is known, to the "enlightened", as a "clue".
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,768 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,768 Likes: 3 |
I've always thought all the 700 bolt heads were chromoly as well as the bolt body if it is jeweled. I think the handle is stainless on stainless 700's. Could be wrong though....
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,126
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,126 |
What manufacturers don't use stainless steel bolts on their SS rifles? This keeps being mentioned, but all I've heard thus far is Borden and Savage. Stiller (although they nitride their bolts now), BAT, Kelbly (such as on the Atlas stainless action), Defiance to name a few.
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