Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hunting Rifle Accuracy

Was at a skeet match some years back and by chance had a guest with me that decided he wanted to shoot, so I gave him my gun and borrowed one from the facility owner. Was a Beretta 390 12 bore. I took a look and sez to him "Roni, when was the last time you cleaned this thing?" He looked puzzled. "Dan, it's not even broke in yet. Might only have 12K rounds thru it."

It still put most of its shot in the right place as I recall. Inside of the receiver looked like it was packed with shredded tires.

All of which leads me to believe that all guns are sufficiently accurate for hunting to some range unique to the gun and shooter. What that range is I will not speculate.

I use a method that I learned in tactical rifle school and adapted for hunting. I have 6 50 yard pistol targets, NRA B-6. These are marked 100-1, 200-1, 300-1, 100-2, 200-2 and so on.

After I've developed the best load, each time I go out I will set up two of those targets and a distance randomly. The first target is the clean cold bore shot, the second is the follow up. Over time a group is developed that tells you how effective your rifle is in actual hunting. That is YOU and your rifle.

Just like a sniper rifle, you can't really judge by hot bore shooting. Nor can you take shots to warm up on technique.

With my HB rifles I keep a range book.

Dan;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust this finds you well and warmer than we are right at present.

Before I go on I've got to say I'm a big fan of the Phillips head projectiles - I mean they just gotta work, you know?

We live in a semi desert up here, but I have seen barrels pitted with rust when they were brought in from say -20� outside, allowed to sweat as they warmed up as steel is wont to do and then not have the bore swabbed.

While I've not done extensive testing on that little issue, I did a wee bit and found that clean barrels didn't produce rust colored patches near as often as barrels that had been shot more than a few times.

I'll admit I don't clean my non-soot burning firearms as often as I used to anymore - but I do recall the rusty patches and pitted barrels quite clearly.

Anyway, as always the mileage varies from location to location as well as with the user I suspect Dan.

If however we can save a new shooter or two the heartburn of a pitted barrel, then that's cool too. Depending upon current income levels at the time barrels can be pocket change or unattainable.

All the best to you this weekend sir.

Dwayne

True words Dwayne. I don't oft have the chance to hunt in real cold weather then move directly to a warm home or camp house. But in the past I learned (one the first such night) about that.

This was before stainless steel was invented as I recall.

Dan

It's 84 right now and sunny. Supposed to get down to a chilly 62 tonight, then back up to about the same tomorrow. Spring came this week and will go by month's end, and then the summer heat will begin. July is hot, August is worse, and September is worser (I threw that word in for 'flave). Then fall comes again and we're back to 84/62. It's a brutal cycle to have to live with.

Mike

Yeah, that 62 degrees at night sounds brutal�..

Supposed to be 48* here tonight.

Amen and to add to it, a good barrel/bedding regardless of contour will not spray them after a couple of rounds. Those get thrown away too.

I can agree with that. Of course someone that leaves oil in the bore can have that issue. A patch of mineral spirits followed by a dry patch takes care of that.

Back in the day, the mid 90's, we had to shoot monthly. Just a few rounds. We took a single target once a month and fired that CBS on it with a bi-pod then dated it a filed it away. That was suppose to be used in case it became issue in court. The shot, with all others was also recorded in the range book along with detailed weather and wind references. The book, of course, is also public record and useable in court.

What a monumental waste of [bleep] time.


Travis

Yes, most likely, but here CYA rules and we do a lot of crap and documentation for that purpose.

I know nothing in regards to CYA but I hope those policies worked for everybody involved.



Travis

CYA, Cover Your Azz. In this case somebody conceivably might call the qualifications of the rifleman in question. Somebody conceived that there could be a challenge there and made the rule.There is documentation on every little stupid thing built around CYA.

CYA with 5 shots or does it take more?

No,less, one round. One round on a hostage taker, in the head for a no reaction shot (even though that is really a fallacy, no thoughtful reaction but an autonomic one can still happen, a reflex reaction)

Riot situation is usually one shot also. In observation, once organization takes place, you can identify the leader and his second. That is a chest shot, no need for a head shot since nobody is in direct danger from him. Then it's cover on the reaction, anyone that is an immediate threat to another. That includes covering an entry team, which again is chest shots. The only reasons for a head shot is if the person has a hostage in hand and there is no other option or if the head is the only part exposed.

A prison situation is different than a police situation in that you know it's in a fixed location. If a rifleman in a prison has done his job, as I did, he already has all his lay points figured and ranges shot. Then he shoots those ranges and has recorded the dope for each. Unlike a police situation, a prison is a fixed known position.

If the situation is inside a building then the rifleman becomes an observer. All the windows are thick plate hardened glass and if the window does not have bars, which are usually 4 inch steel pipe that is horizontal, it is wired. If you tried a shot with the target any distance inside the chance of hitting it is pure luck. A 168 grain HPBT completely fragments on that glass. (yes, we tested it) Plus the fact that the first thing inmates will do is cover the windows with blankets, that is to prevent us from seeing in and to impede the insertion of gas.

We used the 308 in a Rem 700 HB. I thought that a poor choice. If I do fire a round everybody knows instantly. That could be like touching a match to a powder keg. Since ranges beyond about 125 yards are rare, and glass penetration is not a consideration, something along the lines of a fully suppressed rifle in 300 Whisper would would better. I don't want to announce that someone just got shot, I want the confusion long enough for an entry team to get in.

If you plink 'em in the neck there is no autonomic reflex. It's a smaller target than the ass and you have to hit bone.

I'd sat the risk of a miss is way too high on that. And really, with a gun in his hand there is no real shot that can be counted on to prevent a reflex pull on a trigger.

In prison it is different, we are talking an edged weapon. Preventing him from doing a slice or a stab is a lot easier than preventing that 4 pound pull with one finger.

You folks should spend less time shooting and more time cyphering. Ought from ought is naught...It'll tighten your groups.



Not too many years ago, out of the box, big game hunting rifles were shooting 1.5 to 2 inches at 100 yd. Handloads could reduce that to about an inch or an inch and a half. Smaller calibers like the 223 could often manage .75 to 1 inch from the factory. That's changed. With the invention of the Internets, groups have shrunk considerably. I never realized how much influence Bill Gates and his cybergeeks truly had!

Gun companies say that technological improvements have made modern firearms manufacturing more consistent. Ammunition companies claim that cartridge assembly has improved. There's really no reason to doubt their assertions, but these are just two of the three things that produce superb accuracy. People are the third part and affect the result more so than anything else. And boy, have humans ever had an impact!

According to the Internets, group size has gone down markedly over the last twenty years. You can find the evidence by opening your browser and googling rifle performance. You'll read hundreds of testimonials, complete with pictures and eye witnesses. Good old cyberspace!

With all that proof, we must accept that humans have become better. We have evolved. After all, change is what life on this rock is about. But I do not think that humans have become better shots. I think that we have become better story tellers. Praise be to "The Google"!

Here's my proof: Despite manufacturing short cuts, poor quality control and the increased use of polymers, groups have continued to shrink. Strange isn't it? Regardless of the complaints from hunters and shooters about crappy, flexible stocks, heavy, lawyer proof triggers and so-so stock/action fit, I keep reading about out of the box accuracy being better than ever before. I read this stuff on hunting and shooting forums...on the Internets.

Some might say that you can't have it both ways. Someone must be telling fibs, because you cannot have poorly made, butt ugly, ill fitting rifles that shoot better groups than competition guns!

Some might also say that at the rate we're going, we should be bug holing with econo-guns by the end of the decade. It sure looks that way. It also seems that we'll be doing it with 10 lb trigger pulls, using assemblies made from pot metal parts, housed in ugly, limp and shoddily made plastic stocks. All this will be attached to less metallic versions of traditional rifle actions, assembled by numpties, using poorly constructed, off shore parts. Wow! And you know what? This has to be true because the evidence is floating around in cyberspace.

It sure is amazing. The worse rifles get, the better they shoot!

I dunno Steve. How'd you define "superb accuracy"?

And I gave up evolving about 20 years back. Din't see the point since I was doing amazing things with a Red Ryder.

In a nutshell, superb accuracy would best be described as accuracy that is superb.

Sadly, Americans cannot fashion the most accurate rifles anymore. They have lost the skills required to create quality components and assemble a true tackdriver. I'm sorry to be the one to drop this bombshell, but I suspect some of you already knew this.

A truely accurate, modern rifle starts by selecting just the right stock made from top grade polymers and plasti-metal blends. These high grade materials don't just happen. Years of development went into them.

Plastic is the new metal. It's also the new wood.

Polymers are grown from specially developed hybrid monomer plants. Like wood, there are several grades of polymer. They actually started out by experimenting with soya and canola - the firearms industry has always been environmentally friendly - but the engineers kept licking the stocks. The biodegradable stock was half a good idea, but the construction was too tasty and the idea was quickly abandoned. So much for saving the planet.

At any rate, the Far East is THE spot to grow the best, quality strains of stock mono (that's industry talk for monomers). The ground there is just right for this. They plant them in modified, nylon impregnated soil. That's because monomers will bind to almost anything and grow like weeds. The addition of nylon into the soil acts as a natural lubricant that prevents stickage.

Presently, there are three grades of stock polymers - Good, Better and Betterest. Using the betterest grade, there's no need to bed rifle actions anymore. Betterest grade poly features "molecular anti-bind technology", applied at strategic spots along the action to prevent pressure points. You cannot do this with wood or aluminum!

From here, we get into the truly technical. I have to be careful what I say because of patent considerations. Many countries in the Far East jealously guard their secrets and I wouldn't want to be sued for divulging chemical formulas or exposing confidential manufacturing methods. The Far East takes a very dim view of anyone, or any country that steals their technology!