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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I'm so tempted to say ... B S
so I'll just say .... S R and let it go at that.
The ONLY foreign rifle I have is a Tikka T3 Lite so it's a boat paddle.
ALL the others are 'merican' made and are capable of shooting better than I can.
I do NOT keep any rifle that I can't get " 1 " accuracy or better.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
There is the issue of how the rifle will shoot day in and day out in response to both the shooters ability and the ability of the rifle to utilize its group size.
As far as I"m concerned, the best accuracy is what I"m after. Since I bring error to the platform as do conditions that, while they can be compensated for, generally are not ever totally clear cut in their value.
So one could say a rifle at its best groups 2 moa. I as a shooter, and tested by laser trainers, in a sling prone add about .3 moa to that. IMHO if you averaged actual field shots in a hurry, I bet I add 1-2 moa in reality. And then you add the shooting conditions factor, IE you could miss a condition call by 1-2 moa... thats 6 moa fairly quickly as a possible.
Thats one reason I strive to make ALL of the components the best they can be, me and my condition reading included.
So that one has the least amount of error as a package.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 310
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 310 |
According to the Internets, group size has gone down markedly over the last twenty years. You can find the evidence by opening your browser and googling rifle performance. You'll read hundreds of testimonials, complete with pictures and eye witnesses. Good old cyberspace!
These guys were always around, as I'm sure you're well aware of , they just have a more readily available medium for transporting these ideas They were stuck in gun shops, gun clubs, and coffee shops before! I blame Bill Gates also... or did Al Gore invent the internet?
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,757 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,757 Likes: 6 |
I think the Chinese invented the Internets to influence the 1976 US presdiential election. Up until Carter came along, you never heard of the Internets. Coincidence?
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 310
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 310 |
I think you're on to something there...
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
superb accuracy would best be described as accuracy that is superb. I get it, thanks. Glad you mentioned the wood/biodegradable part of the discussion. My newest rifle has wood 24/7. It is biodegradable from the perspective of termites, but there seems to be a deterrent in the form of sulfur residue. Will let you know how this works out in 30-40 years or so. I licked it a few times but wasn't inspired to go further due the faint trace of oils and such. I don't know if my strategy is sound, but in the rush to S/S guns it seems a fair number of wood wearing CM barreled guns are available at fair prices. It is a market niche that has been kind to me. To be fair, I'm wondering what all the brouhaha is about over this accuracy thing. I have never seen a critter with a German ring target tat on it's vital zone and to date have been unsuccessful in conjuring an edible recipe for paper with the X-ring shot out of it. Another point that is bothersome goes to this 'inherently accurate' concept. I send pears every night hoping someone will define that for me. Some point to the 6mm PPC and I ask how it does at 1,000 yards. They snarl. They point out the things that can be done with an F Class gun and the 6.5x284 at 1,000 yards and I ask how that works outside the Longbranch at high noon. They snarl again. I ask what cartridge they prefer for offhand in an open class bolt gun and they start throwing stuff at me. Ingrates. That right there is my .17 cal hog killer. Best, DD
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,757 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,757 Likes: 6 |
There's no such thing as inherent accuracy. There is such a thing as inherited accuracy, as these pictures clearly demonstrate. Inherited accuracy has proven to be the best and longest lasting. Did you know that side by side shotguns actually were invented by mistake? Until the mid 1800s, there were only over and under shotguns. Side by sides appeared after my great, great grandfather went out hunting for quail and fell over. He took his first quail "on his side". Poof! Another firearms type was born. I'm glad that your love of shotguns is paying off in cost savings. Older shotguns are things of beauty. They rest comfortably in the hands and need no purposeful manipulation to hit what they're aimed at. That is a handsome rifle. Just watch what chemicals you get on the wood. You don't want it to smell like a well oiled sock. I had a similarly stocked rifle once. The wood burl my grandfather used was cut from a spaghetti tree. He wasn't Italian, but loved to hunt tomatoes in northern Italy. Sadly, WWI broke out and he was forced to relocate to Romania.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
I do love my shotguns. I was raised shooting them and inherited a lot of accuracy from Gramps. He wore out a LC Smith 16 shooting quail and was working on the second when he passed. Few birds survived his focus.
I became afflicted by rifles much later in life. It has been an inherently problematic endeavor.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950 |
Concerning rifle accuracy (remember that discussion?), small groups at 100 yards just tell me the rifle is worth testing at longer ranges, such as will be encountered while hunting. I don't profess to be a "long-range hunter", but I want to know that my first bullet will land within about 3 inches of the intended spot out to 300 yards or so, and even out to 400 with certain rifles. If the group at 100 yards is already 4 inches, chances are that it will not get better at longer ranges. Such a rifle is not automatically eliminated from the herd, but a man needs to know his, and his rifle's, limitations. Also, group size at 100 yards is not a foolproof automatic indication of what the rifle will do at 300 or 400. That can only be determined by actually shooting at 300 or 400 yards, as most knowledgable loonies here already understand.
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
Also, group size at 100 yards is not a foolproof automatic indication of what the rifle will do at 300 or 400. That can only be determined by actually shooting at 300 or 400 yards, (OMG!) as most knowledgeable loonies here already understand. Emphasis mine and added. I object your Honor. There is no evidence that the alleged 'knowledgeable loonies' are knowledgeable or loonies inasmuch as there has been no examination. There has been no testimony as to where the average person, or looney (if it please the court) would find a place to shoot 300 or 400 yards. This implies that the average looney, not to be confused with the 'knowledgeable looney', has any recourse for said determination. The argument is neither answered or settled, and it is requested this discussion be recessed for the evening semi-dressed tart extravaganza.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,361 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,361 Likes: 1 |
I had a suspicion that this thread would go in the toilet.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I object your Honor. There is no evidence that the alleged 'knowledgeable loonies' are knowledgeable or loonies inasmuch as there has been no examination. There has been no testimony as to where the average person, or looney (if it please the court) would find a place to shoot 300 or 400 yards. This implies that the average looney, not to be confused with the 'knowledgeable looney', has any recourse for said determination.
The argument is neither answered or settled, and it is requested this discussion be recessed for the evening semi-dressed tart extravaganza. DD....er....Counselor.....do you mean to state to the Court that not all rifle loonies actually shoot at 300-400 yards to verify accuracy potential of their rifles?? 100 yard 3 shot groups are "it"? Case (thread) closed, then. Let the extravaganza commence.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,608
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,608 |
Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,789 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,789 Likes: 2 |
Then one last post before it is abandoned.
My firearms do what they do and it is up to me to work with-in those limitations.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
Also, group size at 100 yards is not a foolproof automatic indication of what the rifle will do at 300 or 400. That can only be determined by actually shooting at 300 or 400 yards, (OMG!) as most knowledgeable loonies here already understand. Emphasis mine and added. I object your Honor. There is no evidence that the alleged 'knowledgeable loonies' are knowledgeable or loonies inasmuch as there has been no examination. There has been no testimony as to where the average person, or looney (if it please the court) would find a place to shoot 300 or 400 yards. This implies that the average looney, not to be confused with the 'knowledgeable looney', has any recourse for said determination. The argument is neither answered or settled, and it is requested this discussion be recessed for the evening semi-dressed tart extravaganza. there is a reason Pat holds his long range Ice Breaker shoot out here in the spring.....aint that hard to find a place to shoot to a 1000 yards or more if you really want to.....find yourself a nice straight coulee and have at it...watched guys take their rifles out to a mile at Pats shoot.....one guy, MontanaMarine, was taking his 30-06 out that far.....granted i aint one of the long range shooters on this board, yet, but looking at getting in on it because the country up here makes finding a spot to practice easy....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,998 Likes: 26 |
My firearms do what they do and it is up to me to work with-in those limitations. Exactly. And practice shows you limitations instantly. Sometimes it is pretty humbling but that is a good thing. Work within your skill level when hunting, practice further out.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
I had a suspicion that this thread would go in the toilet. First clue was maybe a couple dozen pages or there abouts? Well, IMO, FWIW, a fella either knows the shot will connect or he's sending it on a wing and a prayer. Doesn't much matter what the distance is, or anything else. If he KNOWS, it's because he has done his homework. Otherwise it's all guess and by golly. MOA or fractions/multiples thereof is nice and all that, but the question is, "Can you make the shot?" Yes or No? There is no in between.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,249 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,249 Likes: 6 |
At any rate, the Far East is THE spot to grow the best, quality strains of stock mono (that's industry talk for monomers). The ground there is just right for this. They plant them in modified, nylon impregnated soil. That's because monomers will bind to almost anything and grow like weeds. The addition of nylon into the soil acts as a natural lubricant that prevents stickage. The problem with Far East stocks is all the hippies smokin' them. Best high this side of Maui Wowie and Humboldt County ThunderIjustforgot. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,249 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,249 Likes: 6 |
Anybody got a Hostess fruit pie?
P
Last edited by Pharmseller; 03/24/14.
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,244 Likes: 33 |
No, but if you can hold minute of waffle iron throw some Pillsbury cinnamon rolls on the deck and rock on.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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