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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You could probably get a 170 flat Point to 1900-1950 fps. Feeding might be a question mark.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm thinking a 125 grain spitzer at 2200, keep the range short, and shoot them in the slats. Reasonable?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You could probably get a 170 flat Point to 1900-1950 fps. Feeding might be a question mark.
Accurate lists a 175g Sierra MatchKing at 1868fps, 168's at 1898fps. Close enough to 1900. 150's are listed over 2000fps.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I was crunching some data through QL with the 168gr Ballistic Tip, and W296. 1900 fps, at 55K psi, via 16" bbl.
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler BalTip 30168
Bullet weight : 168 grains or 10.89 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 1900 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.490@V>0 fps;
Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 152 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 93 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 175 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 20 fps
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�Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds �
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| 0 1900 0.0000 1347 -2.6 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 25 1869 0.0399 1303 -0.5 0.1 0.31 0.3 +5.6 +1.92 0.27
| 50 1838 0.0807 1260 +1.0 0.3 0.60 1.2 -5.4 -1.84 0.54
| 75 1807 0.1223 1218 +1.8 0.7 0.87 2.8 -6.6 -2.26 0.82
M 92 1786 0.1511 1191 +1.9 1.0 1.06 4.3 -5.8 -2.01 1.01
| 100 1777 0.1647 1178 +1.9 1.2 1.14 5.1 -5.3 -1.81 1.10
| 125 1747 0.2078 1139 +1.3 1.8 1.41 8.1 -2.9 -1.00 1.39
X 150 1718 0.2517 1101 0.0 2.6 1.66 11.8 0.0 0.00 1.68
P 174 1690 0.2944 1066 -2.0 3.5 1.90 16.1 +3.1 +1.08 1.96
| 175 1689 0.2962 1064 -2.1 3.5 1.91 16.3 +3.3 +1.12 1.97
| 200 1660 0.3414 1028 -4.9 4.5 2.15 21.5 +6.8 +2.33 2.28
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not sure I would trust a Ballistic Tip to open up well at those velocities, which is why I mentioned the 30-30 bullets. The Flex-Tip bullets might feed in AR mags or a Micro-7, maybe?
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Campfire Tracker
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I pretty much knew it was a no go as far as an elk cartridge. He likes ARs and the tactical stuff. Yesterday he swore a guy was smacking steel at 900 every shot with one. I think today we might have a lunchtime discussion about some things. mtmuley He's right, there a recent video of one the Tact-tic-Cool guys wacking a gong at a silly range for the cartridge. I'll see if I can kind the link for it. I hope the conversation goes well...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Not sure I would trust a Ballistic Tip to open up well at those velocities, which is why I mentioned the 30-30 bullets. The Flex-Tip bullets might feed in AR mags or a Micro-7, maybe? This doe caught a 125 BT about 60 yards away, which was launched with a mild load out of the Contender shown, making about 2250. It definitely did expand  ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/contenderdoe.jpg) but I still wouldn't use it for elk, unless it was a survival situation, and I had nothing else.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Not sure I would trust a Ballistic Tip to open up well at those velocities, which is why I mentioned the 30-30 bullets. The Flex-Tip bullets might feed in AR mags or a Micro-7, maybe? Yeah I don't know how low the BTips would open. 1/7 or 1/8 twist might help at low velocity. The Nosler LRAB is advertised to open down to 1300 fps. Starting a 190 or 210 LRAB at 1500-1700 window would have it well above 1300 fps at 200 yards.
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Campfire Tracker
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Would I starve in Estes Park, Co. while being allergic to anything but elk meat with only a .300 Blackout rifle/ammo?
No - I would like to think.
Does that make it a viable relk round in my opinion? No - not by a long or short shot.
Does my opinion matter? Most possibly - not.
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If you can't bag an elk near Estes with a .22 rimfire you're not a very good hunter.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Tracker
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That was the point, me thinks...
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That was the point, me thinks... Yeah, I know. That wasn't a slam against you in any way. Just a comment abut Estes Park's elk. You can take them out with your bumper.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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Problem is, the tacticool guys think the AR and related specialty cartridges can do it all. I still say the Blackout is NOT an elk cartridge. Told the kid that but I doubt he listened. mtmuley
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Campfire Tracker
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In reality, the AR platform can do it all. While I would hesitate to call the Blackout/Whisper an elk cartridge, a pretty good case could be made for the Grendel or 6.8. If one is willing to include the 308 pattern rifles, there really isnt much they cant do.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Problem is, the tacticool guys think the AR and related specialty cartridges can do it all. I still say the Blackout is NOT an elk cartridge. Told the kid that but I doubt he listened. mtmuley I�d rather see him using his AR for elk than an Ultra Mag.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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After SHTF and my family was starving, yes, now, NO.
Gunner
Trump Won!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not sure I would trust a Ballistic Tip to open up well at those velocities, which is why I mentioned the 30-30 bullets. The Flex-Tip bullets might feed in AR mags or a Micro-7, maybe? Yeah I don't know how low the BTips would open. 1/7 or 1/8 twist might help at low velocity. The Nosler LRAB is advertised to open down to 1300 fps. Starting a 190 or 210 LRAB at 1500-1700 window would have it well above 1300 fps at 200 yards. If going LRAB I would test the expansion out first. Also might be worth trying something like the 130 SSP. I would think of a correctly loaded 300 BLK as performing similarly to a 30-30 in a trapper length rifle. Which has killed plenty of elk...
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Campfire Tracker
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If I could banish any one cartridge from the planet, that would probably be the one. I work in a gun shop and almost get physically ill when I get some "Tacticool" wannabe in the store that has drank the Blackout Kool-Aid. A certain gunwriter described the Blackout as an "ideal deer and hog cartridge out to 300 yards" and some of these newbies take it as gospel. This round has been around for so many years. It serves a purpose. ALways has. But its the idiots that write stuff and the idiots that believe it that should be banned. Its a good choice for the niche which it serves, that niche should be a lot smaller than it is numbers wise though. Of course I"m always amazed at folks that think the 223 it too small for deer and the like, but lets cut the case off and put a bigger bullet in it and its just fine... amazes me to no end. I have no issues with a Whisper/Blackout for its original intended purpose. Just get annoyed that some consider it a dragon slayer in the hunting fields when there are at least a thousand other cartridges so much better suited to killing God's creatures cleanly under all circumstances and conditions. Of course I did cleanly kill a buck a couple years back with the parent .221 Fireball in the same stand that I'd previously killed a doe with a .404 Jeffery....
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Why an AR over an Ultra Mag? mtmuley
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Campfire Outfitter
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Better chance he will be able to shoot it well.
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