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Well, with point location looking similar, it shows the ancient Indians were vertebrae, spinal cord shot placement hunters, NOT front shoulder/lower ribcage/heart shot placement hunters

Makes sense. The spinal cord being less protected on top of back,rather than trying to drive it through the ribcage.

Last edited by WillARights; 06/09/14.

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Bison it is!


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That is just about as cool as it gets right there.



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Originally Posted by rattler
shots with a digital endoscope/microscope.....unfortunately this is a cheap one with manual focus so its real hard for me to get great pics but you can see flecks of bone on the flint in these pics


Guess again Rattler, those look outstanding! laugh


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Very evident they had done this before.
As we chant today......."shot placement.......shot placement".

Makes ya wonder if they had the equivalent of "the Perfect Shot" by Boddington........except on tanned hide. whistle

Last edited by chapped_lips; 06/09/14.
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Originally Posted by chapped_lips
Very evident they had done this before.
As we chant today......."shot placement.......shot placement".

Makes ya wonder if they had the equivalent of "the Perfect Shot" by Boddington........except on tanned hide. whistle


Well they only had to shoot "Minute of Buffalo" back then... wink

Come to think of it, I had a rifle like that once. For a very short period of time... grin


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Could be Bison....

http://washingtonlandscape.blogspot.com/2012/11/bison-in-washinton-state-gibbs-and.html

Quote
I came across a reference regarding buffalo and antelope in eastern Washington by George Gibbs in a report to General McClellan in 1854. Gibbs was hired to assess the First Nations peoples of Washington Territory prior to the treaties. Besides his reports on the tribes and tribal leaders, Gibbs made numerous observations about the Washington landscape. Regarding large game in eastern Washington Gibbs reported, "Of the larger game there is but little in their own country. The buffalo, it would seem, in former times penetrated at least occasionally thus far to the westward, though now they never come through the northern passes. We were informed by an old Iroquois hunter, at Fort Colville, who has been some forty-eight years in the company's service, that the last bull was killed some twenty-five years ago in the Grand Coulee."

This matches David Douglas (of Douglas fir fame) reporting eating buffalo tongue as a treat given to him by Wanapum people near present day Hanford in the 1820s.

These two reports strike me as reasonably reliable and extend the period of time bison were in Washington State to the 1820s. It is generally thought that previous bison populations came not through the northern passes, but via eastern Oregon and the Snake River plain of Idaho. The arrival of horses and guns combined with relatively marginal habitat and forage as well as poor connectedness to other populations brought about the demise of the bison in Washington State well before American settlement and well before the notorious wasteful slaughter of the herds on the high plains in the later part of the 1800s.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by chapped_lips
Very evident they had done this before.
As we chant today......."shot placement.......shot placement".

Makes ya wonder if they had the equivalent of "the Perfect Shot" by Boddington........except on tanned hide. whistle


Well they only had to shoot "Minute of Buffalo" back then... wink

Come to think of it, I had a rifle like that once. For a very short period of time... grin


I has a Ruger boat paddle 223 that wouldn't shoot that good. Just made a minute of buffalo herd. I didn't keep it long either.


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That find is really something to marvel about. Thanks.


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Re: Minute of Bison

I wonder what was the standard of the day back then for "arrowhead and shaft" runout?

Can you picture a bunch of Indians sitting around a campfire arguing and tossing insults over arrowhead size......arrowhead seating depth......which lashing is best.......heart shot vs neck shot vs Tejas heart shot.


Last edited by chapped_lips; 06/09/14.
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Bring it down, youre a hero.

If it ran off, over the next horizon, you're bow musta been shooting .270 as I understand it.

Last edited by WillARights; 06/09/14.

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Pete E
That's one heck of a find. I have no idea what the age of it would be? How long did the local Indians continue to use flint for arrow heads? Perhaps as late as the 1500's?
Much later, at least early 1800's. This was in NW Washington. A few ships were putting into Puget sound around 1800 but it was likely quite a few years later before iron arrow heads were generally available.


Thanks..I know some of the tribes towards Mexico were working precious metals after contact with the Spaniards ect, but I'd didn't know how far /fast that knowledge spread north.

Did any of the tribes learn to smelt/work iron, or did they obtain it from the European settlers?

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Interesting angle of penetration suggests a shot or spear from above, like a tree of ledge.

There is a possibility this could be a lower thoracic vertebrae from and extinct bison antiquus. My only clue to that is the broad dorsal on the spinous process.

Here's a couple vertebrae from a juvenile:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Last edited by WyColoCowboy; 06/09/14.


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First you show up here with pics of y,alls fun you have been having not to mention the good company your keeping, then you go and find some thing like this! Go buy a lottery ticket! But for heaven sakes don't tell us when you win the jealousy will probably cause me to have a stroke.


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Originally Posted by WillARights
Very Sound advice Blue

They only need a tiny piece of it to date it.

Hack it off yourself.

Talk to them over email,and send them pics of it.

Then send them a tiny hunk.

Done.

Cattle? Mustang? Steppe Bison? Wooly Mammoth? Mormon?

Short faced bear?, grizzly bear?, yogi bear? Saber tooth tiger?


Actually WillARights you may have hit a home run there as it could well be from a Wooly Mammoth as there is a record of a Wooly Mammoth being found near here about thirty or forty years ago up near Sequim. So they were known to have frequented the area.


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I think that flattened spinal process is not a deformation, but rather just a hint at the location or position of that vertebrae along the spine, of whatever species this is.

Vertebrae are not uniform, as different muscles, and connective tissue attach, requiring different shaped boney projections.

That being said, my curiosity is peaked. Maybe some of the docs, or phys therapists here can speak on it.

Last edited by WillARights; 06/09/14.

Trump HAD the World, ", Trump saw our children, "
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Just read that somebody else beat me to it. I've been looking at bison and elk vertebrae for the last hour... lol



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If is IS a bison vertebrae, we're talking 10,000+ years old...



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Rattler,

That is about as good as it gets right there. Around here I would say it was the result of a Pawnee or Sioux running their pony along side a buffler and making a DRT shot with their favorite bow.

Hang on to it and be cautious of letting any academics "study" it. Things get lost quite easily.


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If it is from the Bison Latifrons, as the one in the picture on page 8, then we're back 20,000+ years.



"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

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