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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 6 |
Man, all this 9.3 talk could get a guy wound up. I already have a 35 Whelen, 35 Newton and a 338 Win Mag as well. Plus, I ran across what looks like a decently sporterized M1917 this afternoon that would make a slick rebore candidate for a 9.3x62. Seems like the 1917's make some pretty cool rifles with their big bellys.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,625 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,625 Likes: 1 |
Further, much to my surprise, Ruger had a new tang stock available. Other than a black pad instead of red, it is a drop-in only to need a bedding job to fortify the stock.
Sounds like you are all set. I would never have thought to call Ruger in search of that stock. Good thinking!
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
bigwhoop,
I dunno about the construction of the 9.3 TSX's being softer, partly because there are a few 9.3x64 enthusiasts around, not to mention 9.3 wildcatters. In fact, the guy who played "Donk" in CROCODILE DUNDEE is a rifle loony and 9.3 wildcatter. Met him a few years ago at the SHOT Show in the Redding booth. Not as big as he looked on-screen, but he loves his .366's....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Should also emphasize that this all ballistic trivia, since aside from the legality of using the .338, Whelen and 9.3x62 in some African countries on dangerous game, the all work fine on the same basic array of animals.
But the Campfire is the cyberspace center of ballistic gack, as our friend Dober put it, and a major my job is dealing in rifle trivia.
In what is loosely termed "reality," the .30-06 with the right bullet will do anything the three rounds we're discussing will. But to rifle loonies that ain't any fun.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34 |
Should also emphasize that this all ballistic trivia, since aside from the legality of using the .338, Whelen and 9.3x62 in some African countries on dangerous game, the all work fine on the same basic array of animals.
But the Campfire is the cyberspace center of ballistic gack, as our friend Dober put it, and a major my job is dealing in rifle trivia.
In what is loosely termed "reality," the .30-06 with the right bullet will do anything the three rounds we're discussing will. But to rifle loonies that ain't any fun. You went and spoiled all the fun!
Haven't decided on one yet
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,464 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,464 Likes: 4 |
I've owned a couple of .338 Win Mags, a couple of .35 Whelens and three .375 H&Hs. Actually, that's only two distinct rifles in .375 H&H as the last one had a 26" barrel that I had cut to 22" The other was an M70 with a 24" that weighed about 10 lbs with scope. All of those rifles are long gone. Not due to poor performance in a ballistic sense, but I got out of them all I wanted and then some. In looking for another .35 Whelen, I came across a terrific buy on a 9.3 X 62, and had an interest to the point of researching ballistics and listening to John (MD) and Ganyana (Don Heath). I was impressed by what they had to say and chose the 9.3 X 62 over a a M700 Rem in .338 RUM. I'd owned a .340 Wby for ten years so knew pretty well what to expect from the RUM. But in handling those two rifles side by side in the same shop, at a near identical price, I chose the T3 in 9.3. I've not been disappointed. In fact, I'll keep this one. John will defend it, and we have a fellow up here in the far north of Canada who has a dozen or so of 'em, and uses it on all big game in the Yukon. He killed a big griz with one a couple of years ago. He's become quite famous across the North Land and in the Northwest. And due to his promotions and adventures, the 9.3 X 62 has become quite popular across the north of Canada. My experience in hunting with it is so-far limited to two bears. One, I finished off for a young friend and was quite impressed by the work of a 286 Hornady. The other was my own bear - a six-footer - that took a frontal chest hit from a 286 Nos. Part. that penetrated 3 feet and was found in skinning just in front of the right hip. It's ballistic performance comes close enough to the .375 H&H, that I feel a more appropriate comparison is with the .375 than the .35 Whelen. I've written quite a bit about it in my blogs, including the current series. My thanks to John and Don for their enthusiastic endorsement of that famous African cartridge (yeah, I know it's German), and to Ted in the far North. Now, I have my own reasons for endorsing it as the best of The BEST in mediums. Bob www.bigbores.ca
Last edited by CZ550; 06/24/14.
"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Bob,
Thanks for the very interesting post!
The 286 Hornady performs very well, especially in the Hornady factory loads at the now-standard industr velocity of 2360 fps. The last animal I shot with the 9.3x62 was taken with that load in April, a big cow nilgai facing me at a little over 200 yards.
Now, nilgai guides will tell you both bulls and cows are the toughest in North America. Whether that is true I don't know, only having taken 4 and seen another 4 killed. But the outfitter with me was totally astonished to see the cow hop sideways a little, then collapse about 10-12 feet from where it was hit. The bullet had entered just inside the left shoulder and exited just behind the rear of the ribcage. He told me they often see cow nilgai go as much as 400 yards after solid chest hits with good bullets from .300 magnums.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,063 |
Have also been experimenting with buckshot for cheap practice/small game loads in the past year, with excellent results. Would be surprised if 0000 sized to .366" didn't work with Red Dot.
Probably would. And 000 buck, at .360", would probably work in a .357 even without sizing. I saw in your article that you use #4 buck in a .243, but had to sort them. I guess you know Lee Precision makes a mold that casts #4 buck about a dozen at a time. Of course, if you're going to cast, you'd probably just make bullets.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,857 |
greydog,
In my experience the difference between the .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 doesn't really occur until bullets over 250 grains are used. Yeah, with a custom twist in a .35 Whelen you can use spitzers over 250 grains, but damn few are made, and even the heavier bullets available tend to have blunt noses so they'll stabilize in a 1-16 twist.
In contrast, the 9.3x62 was designed to shoot much heavier bullets, so there are a bunch available. And in my experience they do make a difference, especially on game larger than deer. I've seen this as well - but interestingly, my current whelen in M77 Hawkeye config has a 1:12 twist. Came from the factory that way. I believe Ruger made a 1:12 twist in a run of 350 Rem mags and this barrel came from one of those batches. I've been looking at the heavy Woodleighs to give them a try just to see how they shot and velocity potential. I've also contemplated having my whelen re-bored to 9.3x62 to take advantage of the twist, 286 Nosler, and legality in Africa. I have a 375 Ruger but it weighs 9 lbs, my whelen weighs right at 8 lbs with a handy 22" barrel. Plus it shoots well.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
Why no love for the 9.3x64mm? Especially if it is in a custom rifle.
Is it just too close to the .375 H&H? It doesn't have the recoil reduction advantage of the 9.3x62 but could be loaded down to that level easily. With 286 grain bullets I believe it is allowed for dangerous game in most African Countries, except the ones with caliber rather than energy restrictions.
Ammo for it was on the shelves of the sporting goods stores that I checked in Windhoek and Johannesburg. It is real close to the 35 Newton that so many get horned up over. Good sized non belted case, good brass, so why so little looney attention?
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
It's a pity Hornady no longer makes a 275 gr .358" bullet as IMHO that would put the whelen on even grounds with the 9.3X62.
Swift does make a 280 gr A-frame which should be outstanding, but as John mentioned the 1-16 twist remington barrels will likely have issues stabalizing that bullet. Should be no problem with a 1-14 or 1-12. And if you have a 1-12 twist barrel and want to drill deep, there is always the 310 gr woodleigh.
And a friend got a swaging die to turn .366" bullets into .358" bullets, though as I recall the accuracy was so-so. My understanding is when you swage a bullet the jacket springs back and the core is slighly loose, so the proper way to do it is to swage smaller than dia and then bump the bullet up to final dia. Too much work IMHO when you have options already in production.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
With regards to the "legal cartridge for Africa", what is that based on? It there just a drop-dead minimum ft/lbs number? Is it based on many years of guides and their observations? What started that in the first place? I bet Mule Deer has some incite.
Last edited by bigwhoop; 06/25/14.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,473 |
Swift does make a 280 gr A-frame which should be outstanding, but as John mentioned the 1-16 twist remington barrels will likely have issues stabalizing that bullet. I'll let you know for sure in a few weeks. Something tells me I'll get it to shoot.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
It's a fairly blunt-nosed "spitzer," designed to be short enough to work OK in 1-16 twists. However, I had the best luck getting it to shoot in my 1-12 twist .358 STA.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
That's why a 223 is a FAR better deer round than a 22/250, because they generally come with a faster 1-9" twist vice the antiquated 1-14" of the 22/250.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34 |
With regards to the "legal cartridge for Africa", what is that based on? It there just a drop-dead minimum ft/lbs number? Is it based on many years of guides and their observations? What started that in the first place? I bet Mule Deer has some incite. There is not a one size fits all. Africa is a big place with many countries and provinces within countries. Each country or provincial game dept will determine ft lbs standards or lack of same. Many times it depends on what the PH will allow, he will have to clean up your mess if you screw up a shot. Foot pounds is not on game killing authority. Would I take a big five on with a 35 Whelen?, no way!, with a 9.3x62 yes, yes! How do I know, because I have, more than once. Would a 416 be a better choice, sure, but a 9.3x 62 is not a bad choice either. AR has a list of African country recommended minimums.
Haven't decided on one yet
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
How about Bigfoot? 9.3 or 35?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,902 Likes: 1 |
Would I take a big five on with a 35 Whelen?, no way!, with a 9.3x62 yes, yes! Why not? I'm not thinking anything out there is going to notice .008" in bullet diameter.
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34 |
Would I take a big five on with a 35 Whelen?, no way!, with a 9.3x62 yes, yes! Why not? I'm not thinking anything out there is going to notice .008" in bullet diameter. Lack of experience shows. Cape Buffalo take a lot of killing. Try killing an elephant with a 35 Whelen. Bullet construction and penetration matter. Not many solids for a 35 cal being made.
Haven't decided on one yet
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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