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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 743
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Campfire Regular
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Oh, and the fact that it's not unheard of for people trying to stop bear attacks with firearms to shot the wrong mammal. Somebody must have actually tried the old� "just shoot your buddy in the knee and then run like hell!", or perhaps even the "save the last bullet for yourself" advice� Hmmmm.
God Bless America!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,656 Likes: 2 |
I'm not much of a handgun person, but I reckon it is time to pick a woods handgun up. I always been a long gun type of person. All three of the above are all great calibers. You folks big on the bear spray. The bear spray is much lighter, vastly cheaper, and more effective as a bear deterrent. This is especially true since you're "not much of a handgun person" and probably lack sufficient practice in wielding a sidearm. http://www.bearspray.com/bear_spray_study.pdfIf you're like most of us and don't need a solid excuse to buy another firearm, it wouldn't hurt to buy a small-caliber handgun for plinking fun. Having been there twice when bear spray was used under ideal conditions I find it humorous they still sell the stuff as serious protection. It does not work if you stumble into a bear while in wind, or a bear that really intends to be a problem. It lets you get rid of pests and that's about it. Try flying with it. A lot of AK is accessed by air and you cannot fly commercially with it. Small planes must be extremely careful with it...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 441
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Campfire Member
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I think I'm the odd one here - Taurus Ti short barrel in .... 41 Rem mag. 250gr hardcast (Federal.) We do carry spray when hiking and usually have two dogs about, so our bear encounters are infrequent.
I chose the little 41 because it's not so big that I'll leave it at home, and I view it as a last resort. If I do use it, it will be at close range. I think that the 2.5" ported barrel may blind and deafen a bear, doing about as much damage as the bullet.
Last edited by Pointbock; 06/26/14.
Support your local brewer.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 221
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2005
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Been carrying a .44 SBH with 320gr Backpacker rounds for years. I spend a lotta time out West, and I can honestly state it has stopped problems on 2 occasions. Bear Spray? Inadvertently get between a coastal brown bear and her cubs, and report back as to how well a can of spray assuaged her instinctual rage......If you're able.
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
RE rolling with a bear, I"ve often considered that one probably really should lanyard the handgun too for that instance.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,982 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,982 Likes: 6 |
More important than what you pack is gaining the skills to use a handgun effectively. Having observed many shooters at the handgun range over several decades I've concluded few of them have any hope of using a handgun to effectively protect themselves from danger. Being skilled with a handgun takes a fair amount of time to develop, and takes continual practice to keep those skills sharp. I can not have fired a rifle in a year and still be fairly competent with it. With a handgun if I'm not practicing weekly my skills deteriorate. So if you choose to carry a handgun for self protection, plan on developing the skills to use it effectively or else it will be a false sense of security.
As far as what I carry, a Ruger SRH in 480 with a 400 gr cast bullet @ 1200 fps. It's the most powerful handgun I can accurately shoot. Of the cartridges the. OP listed in the title I would choose the 454 load with the 360 grain WLN between 1300 to no more than 1400 fps. Better yet is a 480, 475, or 500 properly loaded and accurately shot. You chose wisely.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
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Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,573 Likes: 1
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,573 Likes: 1 |
Chris, how's the recoil on that 329 with loads like what Jeff mentioned? With the original grips, pretty nasty. With X-Frame grips, it's like getting hugged by Kate Upton. Actually, it still gets your attention, but MUCH better. I agree, but actually have experience with the 329 (as opposed to Kate Upton.....but doesn't she seem friendly)
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,325 Likes: 31 |
I agree, but actually have experience with the 329 (as opposed to Kate Upton.....but doesn't she seem friendly) Kate recoils at your approach?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
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I'm not much of a handgun person, but I reckon it is time to pick a woods handgun up. I always been a long gun type of person. All three of the above are all great calibers. You folks big on the bear spray. The bear spray is much lighter, vastly cheaper, and more effective as a bear deterrent. This is especially true since you're "not much of a handgun person" and probably lack sufficient practice in wielding a sidearm. http://www.bearspray.com/bear_spray_study.pdfIf you're like most of us and don't need a solid excuse to buy another firearm, it wouldn't hurt to buy a small-caliber handgun for plinking fun. Having been there twice when bear spray was used under ideal conditions I find it humorous they still sell the stuff as serious protection. It does not work if you stumble into a bear while in wind, or a bear that really intends to be a problem. It lets you get rid of pests and that's about it. Try flying with it. A lot of AK is accessed by air and you cannot fly commercially with it. Small planes must be extremely careful with it... This is news to me. I have flown on Ward Air, Wings of Alaska, Loken Air, and Alaska Seaplanes never an issue with bear spray.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,656 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,656 Likes: 2 |
It cannot go inside the plane...
And how recently are you talking?
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
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For me personally about 9 months ago. For other family members a few weeks ago.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I would not want to fly in a plane that had bear spray inside the cabin. There are a jillion other illegal substances that would not trouble me in the least.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317 |
I used to get bear spray for free from the confiscation pile at Air Taxi terminals. I can't imagine a pilot would be too happy to deal with that inside a small plane.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317 |
Chris, how's the recoil on that 329 with loads like what Jeff mentioned? With the original grips, pretty nasty. With X-Frame grips, it's like getting hugged by Kate Upton. Actually, it still gets your attention, but MUCH better. I agree, but actually have experience with the 329 (as opposed to Kate Upton.....but doesn't she seem friendly) She does seem friendly. Not sure how useful she'd be for bear protection, but I have some really good ideas on how to test that.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
I used to get bear spray for free from the confiscation pile at Air Taxi terminals. I can't imagine a pilot would be too happy to deal with that inside a small plane. Former co-worker was fishing on the Russian and somehow he managed to loose the safety clip on his bear spray he carried on his hip. Upon sitting down in his car the bear spray discharged. He was incapacitated for some time. I wouldn't be real keen on being in a plane and having the pilot getting a whiff of that crap while in the air.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,395 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,395 Likes: 21 |
I carry a 1911 45. I'm comfortable and accurate with it. I shoot 230g bonded Golden Sabres for both two legged and four legged issues. I've killed a couple of Whitetails with the 230gr Golden Saber out of one of my 1911's, and several feral hogs, too. Great expansion, but not so great Penatration. Ive never had one exit a whitetaiI or a hog. I have no problem with using them on 2 legged critters, but for an Alaskan Brown Bear, or a Kodiak, that bullet would damn sure not be my first choice, unless it was the ONLY choice I had. If my 1911 was all I had to pack in Alaska, I'd highly reccomend the Buffalo Bore 255 grain Hard Cast Flat Nose round at 960 fps for Penatration. Ammo is cheap compared to an ER visit IF you survive a bear attack after using Golden Sabers. JMHO
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 4,950 |
As I said in my post, I have never had to try to stop a bear, but have to try to learn from the experts- I think i have read Phil Shoemaker carries both bear spray and a handgun when fishing, and I know a couple of friends that have stopped bears with spray. Also, a couple of agencies, I think from Alaska, have tallied results on many bear attacks and have found bear spray to have worked better than guns stopping bear attacks. Most bear attacks that occur in Montana where someone tries to use a gun to stop a bear do not end well. If someone else wants to rely on a gun, any type of gun, that's fine with me. I'll carry both and use the spray as my first line of defense. Bear spray does require some caution- My girlfriends grandson unleashed some on his brother in the back seat of my Tundra to no good results!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,656 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,656 Likes: 2 |
The problem with the spray "results" is the lack of vetting. I have read internet tales of the incredible spray turning bears at 100 yards. If you happen to be a dipschit like Herrero and do not want bears shot the level of interaction equaling "attack" is very low in spray encounters.
The times I have looked into the claims about spray effectiveness it was pretty obvious there was an agenda involved.
The two times I saw bear spray used on problem bears it did not impress me at all. It did not save the life of either bear. In a serious attack I just do not feel the spray is anything more than false confidence.
For shooing off curious bears and the ones that are not really charging I think it is marvelous stuff.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,737 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,737 Likes: 1 |
Herrero certainly has an agenda. I don't put much value in what he says. He obviously values the bears life more than peoples life. Same kind of guy that is looking for what the person "did wrong" to be worthy of being mauled. Most people also don't pay attention to the expiration date of the spray and they don't shake it regularly. Folks in Barrow tried it a couple of times on polar bears and had no faith in it what so ever. Curious bears tend to make me more nervous as most bears aren't, especially black bears. The ones that are too curious will come back when the spray wears off. Young grizzlies can get curious but they do pretty good keeping their space, at least the ones I've run into. Most people have a hard time taking wind and such into consideration when things get tense. I've very hard pressed to believe spray works at 100 yards. Maybe to bother your neighbors when you are experimenting.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
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