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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43 |
Figgured we was talking skinners.
Me
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
Never seen or heard of a poor Skinner.
They BRING it..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43 |
10-4
Might have to give them a whirl.
That 139 .264 offering looks like a slippery SOB.
Me
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
Phuqqed up and just ordered some A-Max and meant to include some 7mm Skinners to wring out.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
I had a Benchmark 3 groove...
wow. you sure learned a 'lot' from a sample of one and 200 rounds. Well I did learn that a 3 groove is a poor choice if one wants to shoot the best production LR bullets (Bergers). Would you be happier if I made the same mistake twice????  I have several friends and acquaintances that have used Lilja 3 groove barrels. All of them have had issues at low round counts with Berger bullets. Why subject yourself to this when you can get a 4,5 or 6 groove and never have to worry. I agree that there is not really much of an up side to 3-groove barrels and lots of down side.
I have a 300 WBY with a 12 groove barrel. It lasted 3000 rounds before I pulled it off. Was still shooting about MOA @ 200 when I pulled it.
I wouldn't use a 3 groove unless it was for cast bullets myself.
If you go by the Campfire thinking of Google/Adblocker plus - why in the hell should I have to go to a 6 grove barrel just so I can shoot Bergers? It's the only bullet I have this issue with. Berger needs to change! Good Gosh, the dominant bullet manufacture in LR competition "needs to change!" because 3 groove barrel are poor choices???? Get real. Hang a picture of anything you have killed with any bullet. Lil Fish has a better chance putting up a sheep or grizzly and we all know that is not happening. 
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
Burns,
In what Country was that Cub a Legal Harvest?
Thanks!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
Got back home last week and have been opeing packages that have been stacking up the last few months. Found these in one of them, think i'll like them. 150 Scenar,168 Berger classic,162 Amax, 175 ABLR, 180 Scenar ![[Linked Image]](http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg342/steveberrett/Mobile%20Uploads/5FB1745B-D402-4AF5-9792-259C83B3AFB7_zpswgmceemz.jpg) I havent been all that impressed with the bergers in 7mm, but the 230gr 30cal and the 105 6mm are flat wicked.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
The 105 Hybrid is their best effort...but it's still a phuqqing Berger..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,352 Likes: 43 |
I had a Benchmark 3 groove...
wow. you sure learned a 'lot' from a sample of one and 200 rounds. Well I did learn that a 3 groove is a poor choice if one wants to shoot the best production LR bullets (Bergers). Would you be happier if I made the same mistake twice???? I have several friends and acquaintances that have used Lilja 3 groove barrels. All of them have had issues at low round counts with Berger bullets. Why subject yourself to this when you can get a 4,5 or 6 groove and never have to worry. I agree that there is not really much of an up side to 3-groove barrels and lots of down side.
I have a 300 WBY with a 12 groove barrel. It lasted 3000 rounds before I pulled it off. Was still shooting about MOA @ 200 when I pulled it.
I wouldn't use a 3 groove unless it was for cast bullets myself.
If you go by the Campfire thinking of Google/Adblocker plus - why in the hell should I have to go to a 6 grove barrel just so I can shoot Bergers? It's the only bullet I have this issue with. Berger needs to change! Good Gosh, the dominant bullet manufacture in LR competition "needs to change!" because 3 groove barrel are poor choices???? Get real. Hang a picture of anything you have killed with any bullet. Lil Fish has a better chance putting up a sheep or grizzly and we all know that is not happening. You've obviously missed the wailing and gnashing of teeth over some ads here on the Campfire and some people's absolute refusal to accept the very free and effective fix for said issue (chrome with adblock plus makes this place sing). They continue to complain that they shouldn't have to change a damned thing on their end to run a free website they pay absolutely nothing towards the running/upkeep of. The correlation I was making was that some people think that the Campfire needs to be torn down and rebuilt completely because MAYBE 50 guys out of 50,000 have an issue and refuse to go with the fix. Much the same as saying because 3 groovers are hard on Bergers, all 3 groovers are crap and not worth anything. Which ignores the fact that some people simply do not shoot Bergers nor wish to which makes that situation a moot point. Berger may have a reputation as being an outstanding LR bullet but it's not like there's Bergers and then there's Powerbelt muzzle loader bullets with nothing in between. If a guy so chooses he can run some outstanding LR bullets like the A-Max or Scenar in his 3 groove barreled rig and be rather okay. Their desire to rebuild the campfire oddly doesn't transfer over to the raising of pitchforks and crying in the wilderness at Berger to make their wares conform to their gear choice there either. They've changed their gear to work with the Berger but won't on this site. Regardless of how you feel about Larry - dude does shoot a ton and he does shoot a lot with 3 groove barrels, I'd say he connects enough to see that a 6 groove barrel and a Berger isn't the ONLY way to skin a cat. YMMV....
Me
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
A couple more Berger victims� ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0388.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Bobcat1.jpg) more guessing... John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
It's all relative and it adds humor in a magnitude,that you couldn't begin to fathom,that you are swooning THAT. Hint. 162A-Max exit at about 80-ish yds via 7 Whizzum. Yes I realize it is an order of magnitude bigger than the highly "esteemed" Seinfeld Grizzly. Laughing! ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/IMG_8112.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Bucks%20and%20Bears/IMG_8114.jpg) Now I've shot more than a few phuqqing bullets,through more than a few phuqqing rifles. The depths of which,you could not begin to comprehend. Hint. For those reasonsa,I skirt Bergers by a WIDE margin and I do not know a single soul who guns them on Critters as a mainstay. Hint. 'Course,that adds a whole 'nother number of barrels/chamberings to the equation,which was already obscene. Re-hint. Bergers are zooky and unpredictable,the only thing worse being SMK's. Skinners are amazing and I hear good things about Hornie HPBT's,in more than a few diameters. Hint. Paper dies easier than anything and is a piss poor Terminal Affects Barometer. Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2 |
Got back home last week and have been opeing packages that have been stacking up the last few months. Found these in one of them, think i'll like them. 150 Scenar,168 Berger classic,162 Amax, 175 ABLR, 180 Scenar I havent been all that impressed with the bergers in 7mm, but the 230gr 30cal and the 105 6mm are flat wicked. I have a lot of experience with 180 Bergers in various 7mms and I have yet to find anything better; accuracy wise and killing wise. It is an awesome bullet. I have seen it work well on a lowly coues deer (100#) and a 750# bull elk as well as a half dozen nice bears. I just don't get what you guys see in a 3-groove bullet. What does it do for you that the barrels that will shoot thin jacketed bullets won't?? The 3-groove barrels are a bad program that Dan Lilja has been ramming down peoples throats for a while. Why would I want to change bullets so I can use a barrel that gains me nothing? Only way I would use them is if I had a bunch of free ones to screw on!
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
I've never see a 3-groove bullet.
3-groove spouts wear like iron and are exceptionally forgiving.
But again,I can only reflect on 100's and 100's of barrels.
Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
Your "Guide" should be punched in the phuqqing face,for letting a City Slicker kill that RAT. What did it "score"? Laughing!
That stock strikes me as different,which one is that? Better or worse?
Lotsa empties there in the bandoleer.
Laughing!.................
The "guides" laugh at your idiocy. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2006%20Grizzly%20hunt/DSC00599_zps209ca4a3.jpg) Ever get the feelin you are 3 step behind???
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
Phuqqing RAT Factory!
I'm crying I'm laughing sooooooooooo phuqqing hard!!!!!
Just...WOW!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
Now I've shot more than a few phuqqing bullets,through more than a few phuqqing rifles. The depths of which,you could not begin to comprehend. Hint.
For those reasonsa,I skirt Bergers by a WIDE margin and I do not know a single soul who guns them on Critters as a mainstay. Hint. 'Course,that adds a whole 'nother number of barrels/chamberings to the equation,which was already obscene. Re-hint.
Bergers are zooky and unpredictable,the only thing worse being SMK's. Skinners are amazing and I hear good things about Hornie HPBT's,in more than a few diameters. Hint.
Paper dies easier than anything and is a piss poor Terminal Affects Barometer.
Hint...............
I take it then, that you have actually shot a few critters with Bergers and did not like their performance. I have never NOT recovered and animal I launched a Berger at. And, on the average, said victims have made much fewer tracks than with any other bullet I have tried. A couple have made it maybe 30 or 40 yards with lung shots (4wd  ) , but most have simply fallen down or moved no more than a few feet. That being said, they can be a little more finicky when it comes to seating depth. For me their performance on critters has made it worth the little extra effort it might take to get them to shoot to their full potential. Agree with you completely on the SMKs. Critters made quite a few tracks after the shot and no exit wound either. Bad combination. The Hornady BTHPs have shot really well for me out of my .260 but I haven't made it a point to kill anything with them yet. My very limited personal experience with Scenars (only a couple of animals) along with what you and Pat have said has lead me to believe that they are much harder than the Bergers and impacting bone is in order to get much damage out of them. That a good assessment on the Scenars? John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,668 Likes: 35 |
There ain't too many bullets I've not seen interact with Critters and Berger has long been amongst the list of options flunged.
Hornie HPBT's are farrrrrr more reliable than all things SMK or Berger.
Skinners are The Grail...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792 |
Gonna have to try them on a couple more critters then, if only just to give them a fair shake�
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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