Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Question: appropriate punishment for poaching an elk???

And if I personally shot/hit a buck and found it dead a few days later that would be the end of the season. Tag the horns and be done.

Same goes if I was hunting horns and accidentally shot a dink. Tag the dink and be done(obviously).



Hunter in question appears to think it's okay to shoot/kill 2 elk with 1 tag. Sounds like a spoiled bitch.

I have done this with deer. The elk outfitter I use has a kill or wound policy. Cutting fur on an animal fills your tag whether you recover it or not. That may not be the laws of the state, but it is his policy.

He killed the first one legally, no problem
He poached the second. I'm sure the state has set penalties for poaching.
Go with that.

Correct. First kill was legal---then became illegal possession on failure to tag. Second kill was poach.

I appreciate your in put guys. Feel free to keep it coming. Statute specifies minimums and maximums. That is why I am asking for advise, because there is a wide range of punishment options. I want to be "firm but fair".

Jordan

How old was the second elk? That age might be an appropriate time of punishment (can't hunt again until full "replacement" of the poached elk has occurred). $5k, loss of bow, are a given.

What are the minimums specified by statute...?

I'd go light on the illegal possession and a life time ban on ever drawing another Elk tag in that state.
A few hundred to pay for the Elk and the investigation.

If the described events are accurate, it appears that the hunter had the 'intent' to illegally possess the first and to poach the second. Go with the fair maximums.

Wrong-O...... He violated the wanton waste law, too.
At least in Colorado. The carcass tag must be immediately detached upon kill, invalidating the license for use on a 'second one'. It is a 'carcass' tag. Cannot be attached to horns, unless the horns are still attached to the carcass....

He could have 'skirted' the whole thing here(CO) with picture proof of the rotted elk and recovery of the horns from a 'found' kill. Still ain't right, but woulda kept him outta trouble......

When the state of California starts getting tough on crimes against humans then I'd get tough on this guy, till then I think he should be let off with a slap on the wrist like the rest of the robbers, rapist and thugs are . . . . . . . . jmo . . . . . . . .before you start flaming me, I am not condoning his behavior

Well said on all counts there Paul; +1.

He lost a game animal. It happens. He kept hunting, who wouldn't? Then he found the first one. Punch your tag, you're done hunting. You made a bad hit or did a bad job tracking, either way, you filled your tag. Take the horns, make the phone call, you're done.
Don't know about legality, but that seems logical.

Second bull was poached, guy is a bragger, "game hog", a little too self important to think about the game he's killing. Give him a healthy dose, and I mean a stiff dose, of humility. Doesn't sound like money will hurt him, take his hunting rights.

When I am sentencing someone on a first offense poaching, I typically impose, along with other sanctions, a three year suspension of hunting privileges. Second offense nets them maximum suspension allowed. Al

It appears he kept hunting AFTER he found the first one. Who wouldn't? Well, a whole bunch here wouldn't.....

I'd say that if the evidence points to him willfully violating the law, then make it as painful for him as you can. One reason poaching is so prevalent is that the consequences are often not a deterrent. I guess that goes with just about every crime these days. Slaps on the wrist for poachers is a complete insult to those of us who strive to obey the laws.

Correct. After he found the first elk (the trophy---the legal kill but with spoiled meat) he went out hunting again a few days/weeks later and bagged the second elk, the raghorn. The second kill was a straight up poach.

I appreciate all the perspective and opinions you guys are giving me. Good stuff. Thanks.

Yep, agreed. Second elk was poaching. But the time in between the shooting of the first and finding the first, it would not be unreasonable for him to keep hunting.

I'm glad he went back for the first and kept looking. But I suspect his ego had something to do with the search.

I used to help the Game Wardens in Texas. For every tip that led to a Game Warden's successful apprehension of a poacher the Game Warden would give the Peace Officer who helped him a Texas Parks & Wildlife cap. We (Peace Officers) all did if there was PC to either stop the alleged offender's truck, or stop the alleged offender. Poachers are still universally despised by all of the Peace Officers in the area I worked. I have seen a truck and all the guns (the alleged offender was the only person in the truck) in it seized by the state. On to my recommendation:

1) 3 year complete ban on hunting,
2) Seizure of his truck (if it was used to transport the illegal Elk) and his bow,
3) $10,000.00 fine and seizure of any illegal parts of either Elk.

Three years suspension of hunting privileges and a fine of $5k. Confiscate the bow, not the truck.

Any future violations, lifetime ban.

I am a criminal defense attorney with 18 years' experience. Fish & game cases are often difficult to resolve. Here in Washington we have a broad range of acts and omissions that qualify as criminal conduct.

For me, it's most effective to put each case into one of two categories:

1. People who broke the law unknowingly or mistakenly. These are the guys who, forgot their license and tag in yesterday's jacket and discover their mistake when checked by the warden. They're the guys who wander into a different game unit--that's closed. The guys who are hunting with a borrowed rifle that's smaller than the minimum caliber allowed by law. The guy who notches his tag incorrectly--in a manner that DOES NOT put him at any sort of advantage. The guy who gives meat to a friend or relative without providing a note with all umpteen required items of information.

Sure, they broke the law. It's their fault. It's their responsibility. They should have checked the game regs closer. They will be held accountable by the court in some fashion. But, to a man, they didn't actually know they were breaking the law until they were told or they discovered where they went wrong. if their story checks out, these are the guys who don't need to get completely whacked, especially if no animal was killed unlawfully.

2. Guys who walk away from the truck, knowing they are breaking the law. These are the guys who get caught carrying their wife's tag in addition to their own. They're carrying a bow tag and a rifle during rifle season. They parked their truck next to a locked gate that is posted with "No Trespassing" signs and head on in anyway. They shoot from their truck, while on a public road.

These guys just don't care. They are only sorry that they got caught--nothing more. These guys are hard to effectively punish because they only care about their hunting rights. They will gladly go to jail for awhile, pay a fine, be on probation after release, whatever. They just want to be able to hunt again next year. I say it's hard to "effectively" punish them, because non-hunter prosecutors think they are really whacking a guy when he agrees to a jail term and a large fine. Nope. They are giving him exactly what he wants.

So, Rob, what should you do? I'd say you have a classic Category #2 on your hands. Do everything you can to get the guy's hunting privileges for as long as possible. It's what matters most to him. In my experience, poachers rarely get caught their first time. I'd bet that this guy has "bent the rules" a time or two before. I'd further guess that he's failed to tag previously so that he could harvest more than one animal. Even if I'm wrong, he intentionally broke the law here, killing a second animal when most people didn't even get one animal.

Put him in hunting time-out as long as you can.