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I agree completely.

JGRaider,
What is your long range experience besides talking to "snipers"?

Copy and paste the things I've said that are false



Then YOU are saying what I said is true.

I already replied to that

please humor me and list it again.

It's still there
Scroll back

And while you're scrolling back, read some of the posts, and tell me if they sound more like "responsible" adults, or juvenile delinquints

No you did not.

I finally made a decision. I don't know what Snyper posted.

Apparently he doesn't either.

This is your excerpts from the first three pages (Below), which apply to distance hunting

One of the center-grip specialty pistols I use to hunt at distance is a 7mm SAUM. It runs a 162 A-Max around 2579 fps. At 500 yards it takes about .6 of a second to get to target.
I usually start practicing with the XP at either 400 or 500 yards on 10� steel in a variety of wind conditions. This my short range practice distance-A starting place, regardless of conditions.
I have some buds here locally that do the same thing, but with the 5� plates.

It seems like your biggest angst of LR hunting (500+ yards) is time of flight, plus the belief that there doesn�t seem to be many skilled people at this distance when field shooting under the pressure of making a killing shot on an animal.
You also seem too severely doubt other�s judgments in the field on whether they should shoot or not.
You may have other �variables� that you did not detail.

In archery you are going to have about the same time of flight in a 40 yard shot. I understand there are a lot of variable here with different poundage and arrow weight.

As mentioned earlier, if an animal knows someone is around they are going to be more alert, plus the fact of the sound of the bow firing can be a huge issue. These are not big issues for LR hunting.
Interested what your ethics are for archery and blackpowder shooters.
I wouldn�t be surprised if you are totally against archery hunting, because of the possibility of a game animal jumping the string or ducking, causing a miss or bad shot when they hear the bow firing.

There is no such thing as a sure thing, but animal behavior is predictable when they are calm/undisturbed. In other words, I wouldn�t be considering a shot at distance, if two deer are playing and jumping all over the place. This involves taking the time to observe behavior. It can be done effectively.

If I am convinced I will make the shot or I would be shocked if I missed, that is a green light for me.

Maybe not for you-That is your call. Can I still miss? You betcha!
This (Go or No GO) is in play when I hunt with a bow, revolver, specialty pistol or revolver.

Fact is, hunting involves a series of judgment calls.
I am a deliberate shooter.
Just last week I passed on a 112 yard shot on a small pig with a revolver, because I could not get steady enough to ensure a kill. After they went into cover I figured out a way to get steady, but they didn�t come back.
If you assume one can�t be sub MOA at 100 yards (Or Minute Of Piglet-hence even a larger group) with a revolver in a sitting field shooting position, you would be mistaken.

I don�t know whether or not you do not trust others to do what you can�t do (for whatever reason, field shooting skills, weapons purpose built for LR, practice time at distance, etc�) or you just have limits in your head that past this �XYZ� distance it is wrong, regardless. Maybe you have had a bad experience or witnessed others making bad calls.

The good thing is we don�t get to decide for you and you don�t to decide for me what is right.
I will continue to hunt at distance, when I am in the mood and have had the practice level for me to go to that �XYZ� distance under certain field conditions and physical/emotional conditions.
There are some years I just have not had enough time behind the gun to shoot the same distances I did the year before in similar conditions. I am far less concerned about animal movement than I am switchy wind. If animals are bouncing around, it doesn�t matter what the wind is doing-it is a no go.

Although I am writing this to you Snyper, I am really posting this for those who are reasonable lurkers, so they can see both sides of the story and then make their own decision. People with extreme prejudices one way or the other will not be swayed by either side.

Personally, I have seen slob hunting in all disciplines, but the poor marksmanship in field conditions with many short range hunters is beyond the pale. I know of too many times where a guy buys a rifle at the gun store buy his box of ammo, has the gun store bore sight it for him and feels equipped to make that 100-200 yard shot-EEK! Or has different brands of ammo with different bullet weights and can�t figure out why his rifle isn�t shooting minute of 55 gallon barrel.
The LR hunters I know personally, spend a lot of time and money to make sure they are at the top of their game.

I want skilled field shooters, regardless of their discipline or type of hunting or distance.
I spend time helping others get started or improve their field shooting from where it currently is.
With the passion you have shown here, I would hope to assume you regularly help teach others.

I do not expect to change your opinions with this post.
You have pretty much got what you wanted, when you jumped into this discussion on the �LR� part of this forum. To expect anything less would have been foolish or gullible. It seems that you enjoy the banter (I could be wrong there).

At the same time you have not revealed your weapons, skill set, or the way you practice.
You have been sniping from the shadows so to speak, while at least some of the ones who have replied to you, have posted in great detail (they have a number of posts in this section of the forum), which is open to any to see.

You stated:
�Reality is MOST aren't nearly as good as they claim to be, and MOST shouldn't be shooting beyond 500 on their best days.�

I�m not sure what percentage is with your �MOST,� but it is good to know that you ARE NOT OPPOSED to LR hunters over 500 yards who are skilled.
I�m sure the guys that ARE SKILLED here are pleased that you are on their side.
For the ones I know who are skilled, they really don�t care what others think.



SNYPER�s POSTS:
�Hitting a stationary piece of paper 9 out of 10 times still won't assure an animal at 500+ yds won't decide to move just as you trip the trigger
Just because "there's an ap for that" doesn't mean most people should try it.

Your lack of concern doesn't change the possibility of them moving
It merely shows you don't care
They can still move, but you're right about one thing.
It's not a theory that they "don't move."
It's a falsehood, and you just hope they won't move

There are many variables, and none of them make shooting past 500 yds a good idea most of the time
A deer can move enough in half a second to make it a wound instead of a kill.

Reality is MOST aren't nearly as good as they claim to be, and MOST shouldn't be shooting beyond 500 on their best days.�

About 500 rounds out of my 7mags out to 900yds, at targets. BTW, no need to put quotes around "snipers", as they really are snipers, the military variety, including Israelis and Canadians. Why?

Those Israelis and Canadians are bad ass.




Travis

You've got it all wrong, he never pretended that.

He pretended to be a "snyper."

May surprise you to learn that the Canadians have the best of the best equipment available. They spare no expense. Surprised me anyway.

Israelis fight with their noses. Canadians use hockey sticks.

Fact.




Travis

The problem is, most Canadians are not as good with a hockey stick as they think they are.

You seem to be one of the very few here who has some reading comprehension skills.

That's why I kept telling people to READ what I REALLY said

Sadly , most just piled on with the juvenile insults and off topic tangents, as well as a few outright lies

(I noticed you still didn't say which, if any, of my statements were false. You just don't like most of them)

Don't blame me because YOU can't figure out what I said.

It's all still there, so you can read it again slowly

That's fine.

Just wanting to know your long range experience too. Many, as has been pointed out here, have no experience and simply parrot what they've "heard" about the game. (note the quotes).

I shoot with real snipers as well. Just because they are snipers doesn't mean they can shoot, believe me.

Google Todd Hodnett and his operation. Not exactly the minor leagues.

Seeing you confirm you are not against LR hunting per say, as long as people are skilled, is good enough for me as far as dealing with the basic issue.

The number of years hunted or animals killed doesn't say a thing about either skill or wisdom.

You have continued to be vague or ignore questions about yourself.
I have not seen you respond to my questions about specifics in regards to archery hunting (comments I have directly made to you), the types of hunting and shooting you do and the distances.
What is your max distance for hunting (animal hunted) in ideal conditions?
Have you practiced at LR shooting?
What kind of rifle /chambering / optic/ prone or from the bench
If so, what were the regular starting and max distances?
Would you make archery hunting illegal in your state if you had the power to do so?
If not, why not?