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Wow, I learn something new here every day. Now I've learned that wind flags are gay and useless......Thanks for the information fellas!
I also think I know that a .308 will have several times the barrel life of a 300mag, but Tubb and Hodnett are probably dead wrong about that too. Please clue me in as to how FOS I am on this theory.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Outfitter
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So JG, I know you don't hunt at long range, but all the guys you know who do check a wind flag that happens to be in view just before they pull the trigger on a big game animal? LOL I have no idea where you're coming up with "barrel life" as something we've been discussing in regard to why a .308 Winchester sucks hind tit in the long range game.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So JG, I know you don't hunt at long range, but all the guys you know who do check a wind flag that happens to be in view just before they pull the trigger on a big game animal? LOL I have no idea where you're coming up with "barrel life" as something we've been discussing in regard to why a .308 Winchester sucks hind tit in the long range game. Here's what I said. Please note I said competition, and not a single word mentioned in regards to LR hunting. Not arguing, just discussing...........
Ever wonder why the LR competition dudes use wind flags...at the bench, the target, and in between? Often times the wind at the target and bench are different. Big problem.
I certainly didn't realize a .308 was such a LR handicap. I'm sure you're a good dude rca, but you sure are awfully proud of yourself and seem to have it all figured out. Maybe Hodnett will give you a job?
Last edited by JGRaider; 10/04/14.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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I'm sure you're a great guy too JG, but you're really not contributing much in the way of knowledge and experience to this discussion. You do seem to do plenty of name-dropping.
If you don't believe that the .308 Winchester is ballistically inferior to plenty of other cartriges, you probably need to have a conversation with someone you obviously trust as an authority on long range, such as your friends who are snipers. Or you can check the results of any long range competition held around the world and find out what the guy was shooting who won as well as note how well the guys who shot the .308 Winchester placed.
Of course wind flags are useful. Never said they weren't
Wind flags don't exist conveniently in the field during hunts or any competition that replicates hunting. If a guy has no other method to call wind but with a flag, he has a lot of work to do to become proficient and has no business hunting at long range.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'll help you. Here are the results from the Sporting Rifle Match at Whittington from the last 5 months....
Folks shooting the .308 are noted to the right of their score
September C Ward 57 Brian W 56 Jesse L 52 Andy P 51 Steve M 51 Mike F 50 Senior Anthony R 50 Ron F 50 Kevin U 50 Kevin H 49 FNG Jared M 49 Stew O 48 Benn M 47 Shawn A 47 Abol 46 Tod 46 Tom G 46 Mike K 46 Gene K 45 Mark K 45 Cal Z 44 Tim K 42 Rick B 40 Bobby B 39 FNG Bill M 39 James R 39 Tom P 38 Senior Andrew F 37 Bob S 37 Senior Kevin H 36 Marcos T 36 Aaron R 35 308 Justin W 34 308 Peter D 33 Eric K 32 FNG Matt L 32 FNG,308 Micah F 30 FNG,308 Scotty D 30 Lizard 28 Senior Dennis B 27 Bary R 27 Dave L 25 Senior,FNG Kirk K 23 308,FNG Randy 23 FNG Christine P 23 Ladies,FNG Jim L 17 Senior Jeff N 17 Senior,308 Wayne T 15 308 Travis 14 FNG Jared W 14 Dak K 12 FNG,308 Ricky 11 FNG Gene S 9 Senior David L 6 Jessie B 3 Dale P NFS Twilla M NFS
August
Steve M 54 Brian W 52 Jason L 50 Andy P 49 Kevin U 47 Matt M 47 Gene K 46 James V 45 308 Tim K 45 Rick B 45 Neil B 44 Jeff T 44 Dino 44 James R 44 Bill M 42 Jesse D 42 Ladies Ryan M 42 Shawn A 42 Antony R 39 Chris M 39 308 Justin W 37 308 , FNG Troy L 37 Kevin H 34 RJ D 33 CJ M 33 308 Bob S 32 Senior Gene S 31 Mark K 30 Dennis B 29 Jared W 28 308 , FNG Chris E 26 Stan S NFS Tom P NFS C Ward NFS
July
Johnathon T 51 Sean T 50 Ed A 50 C W 49 Brian W 49 Jason 48 Aaron S 48 Steve M 48 Neal T 47 Senior Rick C 46 Gene K 45 Seth R 44 Wes R 44 Mark K 44 Benn M 43 James V 42 Dino 41 Ryan M 41 FNG Jared M 41 Larry S 40 Senior Mike F 40 Senior Bill M 40 Senior John S 39 FNG Tom E 39 Matt M 39 Neil B 39 Senior Matt B 38 Senior Anthony R 38 Andrew F 37 Patrick M 37 FNG CJ M 37 308 Shawn A 37 Zach O 36 Scott D 35 Aaron B 34 Jeff T 34 JJ 34 308 Butch F 33 Jesse 33 Dennis B 31 Kurtis T 31 FNG Troy L 31 Terry R 31 Hoser 30 Jamie D 29 Ladies Jesse D 29 Ladies Tim K 29 Paul S 28 Senior , FNG Bob S 28 Senior Chris M 27 308 James J 25 Randy M 24 FNG Scott W 22 308 Brock T 21 Steve 21 Jim 15 Senior , FNG Melissa U 15 Ladies , FNG Jay K 12 Senior , FNG Charles T 7 FNG James T 0 FNG Jared R NFS Tom P NFS Sky NFS Ann H DNF Jeff H DNF Ara M DNF Dave M DNF
May
Rick C 52 James V 47 Larry S 46 Senoir Sean T 46 Tom P 44 Senoir Seth R 44 Brent B 44 Mack K 43 Shane C 43 Andy P 42 Dave M 42 Senoir Dino 42 Mike F 42 Senoir Andrew F 41 Shawn A 41 Tod Z 41 Stuart O 40 Jared A 40 Bill M 40 Senoir Tim K 40 C Ward 40 Kevin H 40 Jonathan T 39 Bob S 39 Senoir Joshua 39 FNG Stan S 39 Senoir John S 38 Zach O 38 Clint V 38 Adam R 37 Jeff T 37 Scott D 36 Steve A 36 Orrin B 36 Tom E 36 Senoir Barry R 36 Nils F 36 FNG Kevin U 36 Chris E 35 Dave B 35 FNG Scott W 34 308 Joe S 34 308 James R 33 Gary D 32 Dennis B 32 Dustin B 32 FNG , 308 Chuck C 31 Senoir , 308 Kieth S 30 Gene K 29 Senior Dave B 29 Greg C 28 FNG Anthony R 28 Jim C 27 308 Terry 26 Marshall D 24 Jeff S 24 Dwayne R 24 Bruce 23 Lizard 23 Senior , FNG , 308 Peter D 18 Brock T 17 308 Gene S 17 Senir , FNG Chris M 17 308 CJ M 16 308 April
Rick C 56 Jason L 54 CW 52 Jesse L 51 Kevin U 51 Tom P 51 Senior Tod R 50 Mike K 50 Dino 48 Benn M 48 Seth R 48 FNG Fritz A 48 Shawn A 48 Steve M 47 Tim K 47 Stan S 46 Senior Mark K 46 RJ D 45 Orrin B 45 Hoser 45 Mike F 44 Senior Stewert O 44 Mike D 43 Jared M 40 Jeff T 40 Jared A 39 Chris E 39 Rich B 39 Anthony R 37 Sarah B 36 Ladies , FNG Chris M 36 308 Bruce A 35 Dennis B 35 Kevin H 34 Peter D 34 FNG Andrew F 34 FNG CJ M 32 308 James R 31 FNG Jim C jr 30 308 Zach O 27 Marcos 26 Broch T 24 308 Abel S 23 Jeff G 16 FNG Brandon 4 FNG James 3 FNG
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Ranger
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Well, what I do know is this:
1. Not intending to show how smart I am on the subject because I am not. However, from the short time I've been around these guys I've deduced that they know way more about LR hunting/shooting than 99% of the people on the planet, including you. That's why snipers from around the world ask for his guidance and training. 2. I understand BC's and how they work. 3. I understand that nobody can dope wind every time, period including you and everybody else on "the 'fire'. 4. The "names" are very fond of the .308/168's/IMR 8308 for some reason. 5. Feel free to hunt however you want. More power to you. I'll use what I know, you can use what you know, and we'll be happy ever after. 6. I could care less about BR competition, etc.
Last edited by JGRaider; 10/04/14.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Well, what I do know is this:
1. .... I've deduced that they know way more about LR hunting/shooting than 99% of the people on the planet, including you. 4. The "names" are very fond of the .308/168's/IMR 8308 for some reason.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your deduction may be completely wrong. You don't know me or anything about what I know. Also, if the "names" are fond of a .308 Winchester/168 grain combo for anything that can be called Long Range, they don't know as much as you think either.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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I take the best possible shot I'm presented with, but I like to have as many tools in my tool box as possible- with the option to take short, medium, or long-range shots. Good statement Jordan, so if I wanted a cartridge to do that what would you recommend? I hunt whitetail in the SE so its woods primarily but there are some bean fields too.
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Would you then equally "FEAR" any hunter (at any range) who is not equipped to make a shot in the field on game, under pressure (lot different than shooting at a piece of steel or paper)? I am personally opposed to people who do not equip themselves. You have the newbies, who really don't have a clue and then you have what I call "slob hunters" and they just don't really care. You will find both groups hunting at all distances.I try to help the ones who are wanting to learn to be better marksman in the field, regardless of the distance they hunt at. One can whine or one can do what they can, to actually help others be better. The situation is a fact, the fear is "often", though I am careful not to condemn it. Its my "rub", others proceed as they feel right. The tables could be turned on archery. A rifle would make for a more efficient kill. [u][/u]
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well, what I do know is this:
1. Not intending to show how smart I am on the subject because I am not. However, from the short time I've been around these guys I've deduced that they know way more about LR hunting/shooting than 99% of the people on the planet, including you. That's why snipers from around the world ask for his guidance and training. 2. I understand BC's and how they work. 3. I understand that nobody can dope wind every time, period including you and everybody else on "the 'fire'. 4. The "names" are very fond of the .308/168's/IMR 8308 for some reason. 5. Feel free to hunt however you want. More power to you. I'll use what I know, you can use what you know, and we'll be happy ever after. 6. I could care less about BR competition, etc.
They aren't fond of it because it is better, the reason is that is what they are given. The 175 SMK is far superior to the 168 fired from the 308. The 168's lose accuracy pat 600 yards and that is why the 175 was produced.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well, what I do know is this:
1. .... I've deduced that they know way more about LR hunting/shooting than 99% of the people on the planet, including you. 4. The "names" are very fond of the .308/168's/IMR 8308 for some reason.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your deduction may be completely wrong. You don't know me or anything about what I know. Also, if the "names" are fond of a .308 Winchester/168 grain combo for anything that can be called Long Range, they don't know as much as you think either. And my deduction may not be wrong. I'm through with this assinine discussion anyway. It's good to know your ego and self esteem are in such fine shape though. Good luck.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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They aren't fond of it because it is better, the reason is that is what they are given. The 175 SMK is far superior to the 168 fired from the 308. The 168's lose accuracy pat 600 yards and that is why the 175 was produced.
Exactly, they simply don't know what they don't know. There are people in this world who are perfectly happy living in a mud hut with a banana leaf wrapped around their cock. They simply don't know what else is out there or have a basis to compare their [bleep] life with any thing else. same, same...
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Thanks JG! Keep on keepin' on!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll help you. Here are the results from the Sporting Rifle Match at Whittington from the last 5 months....
Folks shooting the .308 are noted to the right of their score
September C Ward 57 Brian W 56 Jesse L 52 Andy P 51 Steve M 51 Mike F 50 Senior Anthony R 50 Ron F 50 Kevin U 50 Kevin H 49 FNG Jared M 49 Stew O 48 Benn M 47 Shawn A 47 Abol 46 Tod 46 Tom G 46 Mike K 46 Gene K 45 Mark K 45 Cal Z 44 Tim K 42 Rick B 40 Bobby B 39 FNG Bill M 39 James R 39 Tom P 38 Senior Andrew F 37 Bob S 37 Senior Kevin H 36 Marcos T 36 Aaron R 35 308 Justin W 34 308 Peter D 33 Eric K 32 FNG Matt L 32 FNG,308 Micah F 30 FNG,308 Scotty D 30 Lizard 28 Senior Dennis B 27 Bary R 27 Dave L 25 Senior,FNG Kirk K 23 308,FNG Randy 23 FNG Christine P 23 Ladies,FNG Jim L 17 Senior Jeff N 17 Senior,308 Wayne T 15 308 Travis 14 FNG Jared W 14 Dak K 12 FNG,308 Ricky 11 FNG Gene S 9 Senior David L 6 Jessie B 3 Dale P NFS Twilla M NFS
August
Steve M 54 Brian W 52 Jason L 50 Andy P 49 Kevin U 47 Matt M 47 Gene K 46 James V 45 308 Tim K 45 Rick B 45 Neil B 44 Jeff T 44 Dino 44 James R 44 Bill M 42 Jesse D 42 Ladies Ryan M 42 Shawn A 42 Antony R 39 Chris M 39 308 Justin W 37 308 , FNG Troy L 37 Kevin H 34 RJ D 33 CJ M 33 308 Bob S 32 Senior Gene S 31 Mark K 30 Dennis B 29 Jared W 28 308 , FNG Chris E 26 Stan S NFS Tom P NFS C Ward NFS
July
Johnathon T 51 Sean T 50 Ed A 50 C W 49 Brian W 49 Jason 48 Aaron S 48 Steve M 48 Neal T 47 Senior Rick C 46 Gene K 45 Seth R 44 Wes R 44 Mark K 44 Benn M 43 James V 42 Dino 41 Ryan M 41 FNG Jared M 41 Larry S 40 Senior Mike F 40 Senior Bill M 40 Senior John S 39 FNG Tom E 39 Matt M 39 Neil B 39 Senior Matt B 38 Senior Anthony R 38 Andrew F 37 Patrick M 37 FNG CJ M 37 308 Shawn A 37 Zach O 36 Scott D 35 Aaron B 34 Jeff T 34 JJ 34 308 Butch F 33 Jesse 33 Dennis B 31 Kurtis T 31 FNG Troy L 31 Terry R 31 Hoser 30 Jamie D 29 Ladies Jesse D 29 Ladies Tim K 29 Paul S 28 Senior , FNG Bob S 28 Senior Chris M 27 308 James J 25 Randy M 24 FNG Scott W 22 308 Brock T 21 Steve 21 Jim 15 Senior , FNG Melissa U 15 Ladies , FNG Jay K 12 Senior , FNG Charles T 7 FNG James T 0 FNG Jared R NFS Tom P NFS Sky NFS Ann H DNF Jeff H DNF Ara M DNF Dave M DNF
May
Rick C 52 James V 47 Larry S 46 Senoir Sean T 46 Tom P 44 Senoir Seth R 44 Brent B 44 Mack K 43 Shane C 43 Andy P 42 Dave M 42 Senoir Dino 42 Mike F 42 Senoir Andrew F 41 Shawn A 41 Tod Z 41 Stuart O 40 Jared A 40 Bill M 40 Senoir Tim K 40 C Ward 40 Kevin H 40 Jonathan T 39 Bob S 39 Senoir Joshua 39 FNG Stan S 39 Senoir John S 38 Zach O 38 Clint V 38 Adam R 37 Jeff T 37 Scott D 36 Steve A 36 Orrin B 36 Tom E 36 Senoir Barry R 36 Nils F 36 FNG Kevin U 36 Chris E 35 Dave B 35 FNG Scott W 34 308 Joe S 34 308 James R 33 Gary D 32 Dennis B 32 Dustin B 32 FNG , 308 Chuck C 31 Senoir , 308 Kieth S 30 Gene K 29 Senior Dave B 29 Greg C 28 FNG Anthony R 28 Jim C 27 308 Terry 26 Marshall D 24 Jeff S 24 Dwayne R 24 Bruce 23 Lizard 23 Senior , FNG , 308 Peter D 18 Brock T 17 308 Gene S 17 Senir , FNG Chris M 17 308 CJ M 16 308 April
Rick C 56 Jason L 54 CW 52 Jesse L 51 Kevin U 51 Tom P 51 Senior Tod R 50 Mike K 50 Dino 48 Benn M 48 Seth R 48 FNG Fritz A 48 Shawn A 48 Steve M 47 Tim K 47 Stan S 46 Senior Mark K 46 RJ D 45 Orrin B 45 Hoser 45 Mike F 44 Senior Stewert O 44 Mike D 43 Jared M 40 Jeff T 40 Jared A 39 Chris E 39 Rich B 39 Anthony R 37 Sarah B 36 Ladies , FNG Chris M 36 308 Bruce A 35 Dennis B 35 Kevin H 34 Peter D 34 FNG Andrew F 34 FNG CJ M 32 308 James R 31 FNG Jim C jr 30 308 Zach O 27 Marcos 26 Broch T 24 308 Abel S 23 Jeff G 16 FNG Brandon 4 FNG James 3 FNG
The average score of every competitor who finished is 30 which I think is a 50% hit rate which is the same rate you experienced on your antelope hunt. Do you think a 50% hit rate is acceptable for rifle hunting?
Quando omni flunkus moritati
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I am not familiar with this comp set-up, but I am pretty sure it is a score match. I have done two matches of F-Class in 2013 at the Nats/World (1000 yards). At 1K the X-Ring is 5" in diameter and the 10 Ring is 10". 10 points for a shot that hits in the 10 ring. On the second day first relay (good conditions). For context sake, it was also my first time to ever compete using a rifle. I shot a clean score (15 shots with 6X's). My very first sighter/cold bore shot was an "X", with 2 more X's and 3 10's in my sighters. So, 21 shots in all at 1K (9 of which were in a 5" circle), and ht rest were in a 10" circle. Can't do that in bad conditions. But I am not taking an extreme range shot at game in BAD conditions. Another thing about comps--You HAVE to shoot when it is your time to shoot. Does NOT matter what the conditions are you have to shoot. That is way different than hunting. You DO NOT HAVE TO SHOOT just because there is a critter there. I'll help you. Here are the results from the Sporting Rifle Match at Whittington from the last 5 months....
Folks shooting the .308 are noted to the right of their score
September C Ward 57 Brian W 56 Jesse L 52 Andy P 51 Steve M 51 Mike F 50 Senior Anthony R 50 Ron F 50 Kevin U 50 Kevin H 49 FNG Jared M 49 Stew O 48 Benn M 47 Shawn A 47 Abol 46 Tod 46 Tom G 46 Mike K 46 Gene K 45 Mark K 45 Cal Z 44 Tim K 42 Rick B 40 Bobby B 39 FNG Bill M 39 James R 39 Tom P 38 Senior Andrew F 37 Bob S 37 Senior Kevin H 36 Marcos T 36 Aaron R 35 308 Justin W 34 308 Peter D 33 Eric K 32 FNG Matt L 32 FNG,308 Micah F 30 FNG,308 Scotty D 30 Lizard 28 Senior Dennis B 27 Bary R 27 Dave L 25 Senior,FNG Kirk K 23 308,FNG Randy 23 FNG Christine P 23 Ladies,FNG Jim L 17 Senior Jeff N 17 Senior,308 Wayne T 15 308 Travis 14 FNG Jared W 14 Dak K 12 FNG,308 Ricky 11 FNG Gene S 9 Senior David L 6 Jessie B 3 Dale P NFS Twilla M NFS
August
Steve M 54 Brian W 52 Jason L 50 Andy P 49 Kevin U 47 Matt M 47 Gene K 46 James V 45 308 Tim K 45 Rick B 45 Neil B 44 Jeff T 44 Dino 44 James R 44 Bill M 42 Jesse D 42 Ladies Ryan M 42 Shawn A 42 Antony R 39 Chris M 39 308 Justin W 37 308 , FNG Troy L 37 Kevin H 34 RJ D 33 CJ M 33 308 Bob S 32 Senior Gene S 31 Mark K 30 Dennis B 29 Jared W 28 308 , FNG Chris E 26 Stan S NFS Tom P NFS C Ward NFS
July
Johnathon T 51 Sean T 50 Ed A 50 C W 49 Brian W 49 Jason 48 Aaron S 48 Steve M 48 Neal T 47 Senior Rick C 46 Gene K 45 Seth R 44 Wes R 44 Mark K 44 Benn M 43 James V 42 Dino 41 Ryan M 41 FNG Jared M 41 Larry S 40 Senior Mike F 40 Senior Bill M 40 Senior John S 39 FNG Tom E 39 Matt M 39 Neil B 39 Senior Matt B 38 Senior Anthony R 38 Andrew F 37 Patrick M 37 FNG CJ M 37 308 Shawn A 37 Zach O 36 Scott D 35 Aaron B 34 Jeff T 34 JJ 34 308 Butch F 33 Jesse 33 Dennis B 31 Kurtis T 31 FNG Troy L 31 Terry R 31 Hoser 30 Jamie D 29 Ladies Jesse D 29 Ladies Tim K 29 Paul S 28 Senior , FNG Bob S 28 Senior Chris M 27 308 James J 25 Randy M 24 FNG Scott W 22 308 Brock T 21 Steve 21 Jim 15 Senior , FNG Melissa U 15 Ladies , FNG Jay K 12 Senior , FNG Charles T 7 FNG James T 0 FNG Jared R NFS Tom P NFS Sky NFS Ann H DNF Jeff H DNF Ara M DNF Dave M DNF
May
Rick C 52 James V 47 Larry S 46 Senoir Sean T 46 Tom P 44 Senoir Seth R 44 Brent B 44 Mack K 43 Shane C 43 Andy P 42 Dave M 42 Senoir Dino 42 Mike F 42 Senoir Andrew F 41 Shawn A 41 Tod Z 41 Stuart O 40 Jared A 40 Bill M 40 Senoir Tim K 40 C Ward 40 Kevin H 40 Jonathan T 39 Bob S 39 Senoir Joshua 39 FNG Stan S 39 Senoir John S 38 Zach O 38 Clint V 38 Adam R 37 Jeff T 37 Scott D 36 Steve A 36 Orrin B 36 Tom E 36 Senoir Barry R 36 Nils F 36 FNG Kevin U 36 Chris E 35 Dave B 35 FNG Scott W 34 308 Joe S 34 308 James R 33 Gary D 32 Dennis B 32 Dustin B 32 FNG , 308 Chuck C 31 Senoir , 308 Kieth S 30 Gene K 29 Senior Dave B 29 Greg C 28 FNG Anthony R 28 Jim C 27 308 Terry 26 Marshall D 24 Jeff S 24 Dwayne R 24 Bruce 23 Lizard 23 Senior , FNG , 308 Peter D 18 Brock T 17 308 Gene S 17 Senir , FNG Chris M 17 308 CJ M 16 308 April
Rick C 56 Jason L 54 CW 52 Jesse L 51 Kevin U 51 Tom P 51 Senior Tod R 50 Mike K 50 Dino 48 Benn M 48 Seth R 48 FNG Fritz A 48 Shawn A 48 Steve M 47 Tim K 47 Stan S 46 Senior Mark K 46 RJ D 45 Orrin B 45 Hoser 45 Mike F 44 Senior Stewert O 44 Mike D 43 Jared M 40 Jeff T 40 Jared A 39 Chris E 39 Rich B 39 Anthony R 37 Sarah B 36 Ladies , FNG Chris M 36 308 Bruce A 35 Dennis B 35 Kevin H 34 Peter D 34 FNG Andrew F 34 FNG CJ M 32 308 James R 31 FNG Jim C jr 30 308 Zach O 27 Marcos 26 Broch T 24 308 Abel S 23 Jeff G 16 FNG Brandon 4 FNG James 3 FNG
The average score of every competitor who finished is 30 which I think is a 50% hit rate which is the same rate you experienced on your antelope hunt. Do you think a 50% hit rate is acceptable for rifle hunting?
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So you're the guy I've heard about who has never missed!
�ber!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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On that relay-YES! Just don't ask about relay two on day one I got my hat handed to me, and made several rookie (F-Class) mistakes all in one relay So you're the guy I've heard about who has never missed!
�ber!
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I was replying to whiptail, Ernie
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Oh, sorry. I was replying to whiptail, Ernie
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Another question: Do any of you longrange hunters use Short Action cartridges...,if so which one?
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