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Listen you blokes, leave the new stuff alone and keep burning through the Extreme line.
If demand for it drops there, they'll start making less of it here and all I can see that doing is driving prices higher than the FIFTY FIVE DOLLARS per 500 grams I am paying now!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dan, I'd be happy for the rest of my life just running RL 15 and H4350 in all of my rifles. I don't really need to have to remember more powder #'s.. Bingo. I do not chase RCH's. Any appropriate powder will get me withing 50 fps of optimum. That said, some folks do have to make a living on such "news", that I do understand.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Listen you blokes, leave the new stuff alone and keep burning through the Extreme line.
If demand for it drops there, they'll start making less of it here and all I can see that doing is driving prices higher than the FIFTY FIVE DOLLARS per 500 grams I am paying now!!! The downside of Australia that is so unknown to the outside.....Aussies get stolen from every time they buy anything. I filled up last night @ $2.87 a gallon or about half what Aussie's pay and they have their own oil from Bass Strait. The Oz Govt will never disclose what it costs per barrel to extract. The Greiner 3+3 tax per litre (That is $0.03 per litre for 3 years to fund roadworks) added in 1987 was never lifted, they just stopped advertising the tax. The Aussie designed and made Holden Monaro was imported to the US and sold as the Pontiac GTO. I saw them for as little as $26,000 new where by Aussies paid 2-3 times that for the same car and that is just 2 examples of thousands. Cold beer and sunshine ain't everything.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Decoppering agents have been around for a long time, I used to think decoppering agents in powder was just a farce or a new marketing tactic etc. I found out I was wrong, some powders with decoppering agents work and work amazingly well. Recently I was doing load development on a new 6ppc barrel, I used the same cases,primers, bullets on all loads so the only difference was the powder. I used the tried and true VVN133,the new Accurate LT-32 and IMR8208XBR. To make a long story short VVN133 and Accurate LT-32 would leave a trace of copper with a single shot down the barrel and with as many as 30 shots down the barrel the IMR8208XBR left absolutely zero copper !!!!!! amazing N133 has been around forever but it makes me wonder why Accurate did not use a decoppering agent in the LT-32
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Probably because LT-32 was primarily intended for benchrest shooting, and benchrest shooters are going to scrub the hell out of their bores after every few shots anyway!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Are there current available powders with a de-coppering agent suitable for the 300 win mag w/165 and 180 grain bullets? I've got a barrel that's a terrible fouler. It doesn't get used much because of that.
"I was born in the log cabin I helped my grandfather build"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The new IMR powders that started this thread are supposedly available right now. 4451 and 7977 would be the two to try in the .300.
Or you could also install Dyna Bore Coat.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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This one would be a good candidate for DBC, I'll try that first as I'm in the process of super cleaning the bore right now.
"I was born in the log cabin I helped my grandfather build"
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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Yeah, super clean bore is key to successful DBC application.
I think some of the DBC "failures" we read about are from not fully cleaning the bore, pre-application.
I'm biased towards the Hawkeye to check it out. A clean patch doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.
DF
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"Some of the older ball powders sold by Hodgdon also have long had decoppering agents". JB
Is H414 one of the powders with the de-coppering agent? Would you list which powders have it, please? Up again.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's been a while since I've seen the list, but I believe it includes 748 and maybe some of the others, perhaps H335.
The problem with many older spherical powders is they burn (or burned) so dirty the resulting powder fouling (which is pretty abrasive) tended to negate the value of the decoppering agent. While newer versions of those older powders tend to burn somewhat cleaner, decoppering agents are most effective in cleaner-burning powders. There are also some other extruded powders that supposedly contain decoppering agents, I believe some of the Reloder series, but I've never seen much reduction in copper-fouling when using them--and as with many other things such as primers and bullets, companies will vary the formula from year to year. Probably the best thing to do is ask powder companies themselves for the latest info.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Considering the total lack of Ramshot Big Game, will any of these new powders work their magic in the 9.3x62?
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I called Alliant Powder Co and they said they did not have any de-coppering agent in their powders. I talked to a guy that I think answered the phone after I had to go through a contract service co to get to him.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'd guess 4416 would work with both 250's and 286's, since it's in the same approximate burn-rate range as Varget and RL-15. 4451 might be about right for 286's, but Hodgdon doesn't have them listed on their data for the 9.3x62 yet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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The problem I had calling them once before was they didn't want to acknowledge that the round can be safely loaded to modern pressures.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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The problem I had calling them once before was they didn't want to acknowledge that the round can be safely loaded to modern pressures. You're going to find that with older classic rounds, like 6.5x55, 7x57, etc. Some providers will give loads for modern actions, some stick to vintage gun limits. I like to research on line for that type data. Load Data is a good source, but you have to subscribe. To me, it's a good deal, as they have most proprietary loading manual data and you won't have to buy a stack of those to have the info. DF
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Hodgdon just announced three new extruded IMR powders that are temperature resistant and contain a decoppering agent. The three powders (IMR 4166, 4451 and 7977) are roughly in the IMR4064, IMR4350 and Retumbo burn-rate ranges, and are made in Canada at the plant that makes other IMR powders.
I got to thoroughly test IMR4166 this summer, and it worked as advertised in a bunch of rounds from .204 Ruger to .45-70. Data for all three "Enduron" powders is now up on the Hodgdon website.
Don't know about pricing, but assume it will be in the same range as the other IMR powders. Good to know. I'll be doing some 4166/8x57 loading over the winter.
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FYI, Lohman arms claims to have all 3 in stock. Graf's and powder valley have 4166.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hodgdon just announced three new extruded IMR powders that are temperature resistant and contain a decoppering agent. The three powders (IMR 4166, 4451 and 7977) are roughly in the IMR4064, IMR4350 and Retumbo burn-rate ranges, and are made in Canada at the plant that makes other IMR powders.
I got to thoroughly test IMR4166 this summer, and it worked as advertised in a bunch of rounds from .204 Ruger to .45-70. Data for all three "Enduron" powders is now up on the Hodgdon website.
Don't know about pricing, but assume it will be in the same range as the other IMR powders. Saw all of those at the LGS yesterday, 29.00 a pound. Saw something else, Hodgdon killed off the IMR 800X. Its now Hodgdon HI-Skor 800X. Whats up with that? Was limited to 2 lbs per day, picked these up yesterday, going back today for 2 more.
Last edited by Swifty52; 11/16/14.
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