Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Time To Kill? A Few Thoughts On Hunting

Boy, you really p h u k k e d up the gene pool that time Schrappy...

I've seen ugly scrungy pissed off chip on the shoulder eight pointers run much bigger and more desirable ten pointers off feeders and does. I guess in some ways they are like some people.

He just keeps coming back for more.

Last year I was legally entitled to five deer, and three turkeys. I took one of each. I certainly could have taken more, but didn't.

On my current lease I took the #2 deer, an 8 point with 16" spread. The largest was a 10 point with 18" spread. Supposedly deer as large as 22" wide have been killed on the lease, according to the landowner. In hindsight I wish I'd let him go another couple years, but he was a sneaky devil, and I didn't get him until the next to last day of the season. I have no doubt he was breeding a lot of does, and passed on his genes. This year I think I'll take a doe early, then hold out for one bigger than him.

It's nice to have meat in the freezer but I am definitely more selective as I get older. There's a couple of young bucks I passed on last year, and I am real curious to see how they've grown, this year.

I also remember one lease years ago, where the "rule" was, don't shoot a deer under 15" spread. I saw one opening weekend, that I judged a hair too small. Two weeks later the lease manager shot it. It was 14"

You have to let deer get big, to have big deer.

What a beauty! I am guessing you didn't throw that rack away.

I found it interesting that later in life Elmer Keoth came down pretty hard on wildlife management and those who decimated the deer and elk herds by killing off the best and leaving the culls.

Good - and very much the same here Gene. But, it's never been a "pasture" - hunting the big country of the SW often means effort over some distance - very challenging now for an oldie. So, am very happy to find what MAY be the best buck in the vicinity, get to good range, and take it.

Unless willing to go out of state it is one tag a year on the good years - sometimes none - so a deer hunt is a big deal and I'm not "monster" selective. There are a couple of nice racks sitting here in the shop, but over about 50 years of doing this have never even considered having anything mounted.

The hunt - the meat.

And the challenge of matching wits with a big one. Otherwise, in country with a lot of deer, there's not much difference in shooting and cleaning a goat or chicken.

Generally speaking, when I go hunting it is for meat with the 1 exception of dall sheep. When moose or caribou hunting, I take the first legal animal I come across and for me size doesn't really matter.

But unlike Randy, if a 60+" bull moose is standing next to a spike-fork, i'm taking the 60+"er. lol

That my friend is what separates the hunting from the killing.

I never put too much effort in anterless season.Most are deer that I can drive right up to,and throw them in the truck ,but I do try to be selective on size,and only shoot big ones.There just aint nothing to them doberman sized deer to justify shooting them,but by the time buck season comes around our freezers are full,and we're so sick of working them up that I don't even want to fool with a real small buck,I don't shoot spikes,or young deer with small forked racks,and skinny necks to me that's just another doe.I will however shoot any buck with a mature build .I have shot 5 points that are bigger than some 8 points.

Strange that none of the people, that seem to think all deer will be great bucks if let live long enough, have commented on my deer picture. Their silence is very loud. miles

Milespatton, I just re-looked at your post and I agree with you 100%. Some deer are genetically pre-disposed to never be good bucks. Just like no one in my family will ever be a 7 foot tall basketball center. The genes simply do not exist.

One of the reasons I wish we could legally cull some small antlered forked horns and spike bucks. I think that these dinks are just going to pass on dink genetics. I have a couple of really nice mule deer bucks on my walls already and do not need another. I would be happy to spend the rest of my deer hunting days afield shooting cull deer, but the regulations won't let me.

Your point is made, and right on the money IMO.

Now, Miles,you know that deer would have added one point on each side each year if you hadn't killed him.

His Grandad or Great Grandad or whatever he was, did not. I saw him a few times but never got to shoot him. He had a large 5 point beam on one side and a small 2 pt on the other, for several years. At first we though it was a broken antler, but after game cameras came along it was obvious that it was not. Funny thing some of the bucks have the good antler on one side and some on the other. Left and right handed if you will. I could make a couple of good mounts by splicing the skull plate on some that I have. miles

Culling to improve the population is a good thing in my eyes.

Culling to improve the population is a good thing in my eyes.

Yep.

Since I mostly hunt my own place, I just see it as being a good steward of my land. miles

What most seem to be missing in all this is the variables that happen in a deer herd.

I see lots of generalities that just don't fit.

There are 4 main things that make for a healthy deer herd, and trophy quality hunting.

1) Maturity. You have to let 'em get old enough to BE trophy quality.

2) Nutrition. Much to some people's surprise is the fact that there are good years and bad years as far as what's avl. for deer to eat. And although the comparison has been made here that growing deer isn't like raising livestock...

I beg to differ. The land is still land, no matter if you have cattle, or deer, or trees on it. Lake Guerrero, in Mexico is a perfect example of this... No limits or size restrictions on bass. Catch all you want, have the guide fillet them and take back 3 coolers of bass fillets for a fish fry. Those that know of that lake, know what happened, and what had to be done to bring fishing back up to par...
The land will only support so many of whatever you choose to mention. If things get out of balance, then nature takes over, and she can be a cruel mother.

So, either by starvation, disease, fire, or bark beetle, nature will find a way to balance things.

3) Genetics. Not all deer are created equal.

Some comments in this thread are by people that believe that no matter which bucks are left to breed, and which does get bred, the genetic pool is the same before as it is after a particular animal is taken out of the equation. It just isn't so. A trophy type buck breeds several different does... then 4 1/2 years later you see 5 of his offspring standing side by side... Are they all alike? Are they all trophies? No. Are they all dinks? No.

Is a yearling spike the same as a 3 1/2 year old spike? (Or older) Of course not. It's not all nutrition based.

4) Proper balance.

Buck to doe, and nutrition to numbers.

Are you figuring in the drought, or the bad winter? Lots of variables here.

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Lots of people have their opinions and have posted about them in this thread. I grin when their convictions are so strong about one thing or another. "All spikes need to be killed." "Taking a trophy makes no impact on the heard." "I always..." this, or "I always..." that.

What I find most interesting, those that won't accept any personal responsibility, nor do they care, as long as they can say "I got mine... fugg you. I paid for my license, and am legally entitled to shoot whatever I want."

Whatever you hunt and kill makes an impact of some sort on the big picture of things. Some are more long term, while some are short term. Some are a positive impact, and others, not so positive.

I have sure taken my share of trophy bucks. As I have advanced in my maturity as a hunter, I don't feel the need to shoot everything with horns, or hair, and have taken a different stance in what I personally choose to hunt and take, and have learned what those choices may lead to, in times to come, and what my grandkids will have left over to hunt, kill and learn their own lessons on. May even have the chance to take another great buck on day... But, in the meantime, I'm happy, and more than thrilled to see a big buck that made it through the season too.