|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
Sooo, how would it go if one went into a muslim cafe and ordered a BLT?
It's a place of public accommodation, ya know.
Maybe, homo wedding are just not on the menu, elsewhere. just sayin. Bad analogy. That is - unless churches offer different flavors of wedding. A better analogy would be if you approached a hot dog stand and ordered a hot-dog and were then told, "we don't serve republicans".
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
I think rikinbbar pretty much corrected your application of the Civil Rights Act. See post #9271456
If the people in question are not public officials they should be able to conduct their buisness occording to the dictates of their concious. It appears that the city and even the ACLU agree with you, and favor the Hitchin' Post point of view more than I do..... http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/coeur-dalene-says-hitching-post-exempt-gay-rights-lawTake note though, that they have had to change the list of their services in order to comply. (read the comments)
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,950
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,950 |
If you are a member of a church in the south, then having a wedding at your church is free. You might pay a tip to the pastor for performing the wedding. Reception is another matter. Some have receptions in the church dining hall without alcohol. Only decorations and food/snacks/flowers are what you pay for. So, in the south it pays to be a church member, for weddings or funerals. Some get married in the church, but have a reception at say the Elks Lodge where they can have alcohol. Membership at the Elks Lodge around here was $100 a year. Not bad, and they have a pool, monthly music and dancing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 441
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 441 |
...Court filings show the Hitching Post reorganized earlier this month as a �religious corporation.� In the paperwork, the owners describe their deeply held beliefs that marriage should be between one man and one woman....
Wow, a "religious corporation?" That may answer some people's prayers.
Support your local brewer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
I really don't care what you think about me It's obvious you couldn't refute what I said in a mature, adult manner, so you just hurl childish insults at me instead, which makes you the loser in the discussion You keep harping on the same thing I already shredded. Maybe if you'd actually read my posts you'd see they refute every one of your points. The only thing I see you leaning on is assertion that the CRA is constitutional. Even Clarence Thomas has said he'd like to take that one out. I've read enough of your rhetorical drivel to know it's meaningless. The only thiing you "shredded" was any credibility you may have had
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
What this story really boils down to is whether or not the Gov't can force you to betray your God and worship at their alter instead. They knew the rules before they went into the business They still can choose not to perform the weddings What they can not do is pick and choose their customers So, you're on the side that government can give them to. I'm on the side that says everyone has the same right to be treated equally by businesses You'd bitch and moan if they refused to serve gun owners A business can NOT force their beliefs on the customers They have to treat them all the same
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
What this story really boils down to is whether or not the Gov't can force you to betray your God and worship at their alter instead. They knew the rules before they went into the business They still can choose not to perform the weddings What they can not do is pick and choose their customers So, you're on the side that government can give them to. I'm on the side that says everyone has the same right to be treated equally by businesses You'd bitch and moan if they refused to serve gun owners A business can NOT force their beliefs on the customers They have to treat them all the same If a business refused to serve gun owners, first, we would ask how did they know? Then we would simply refuse to do business with them.
Secondly, this business in NOT forcing their beliefs on its customers. It is the customers via the power of the state forcing its belief on the business.Big Difference!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
If a business refused to serve gun owners, first, we would ask how did they know? Then we would simply refuse to do business with them.
Secondly, this business in NOT forcing their beliefs on its customers. It is the customers via the power of the state forcing its belief on the business.
Big Difference!!! The customers aren't forcing any "beliefs" by wanting to use the business No one cares if they "believe" in it at all They just want the same SERVICE offered to everyone else who pays the fees to the BUSINESS The owners ARE forcing it by demanding the customers share their beliefs in order to obtain services offered for SALE to the public, which is illegal.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
If a business refused to serve gun owners, first, we would ask how did they know? Then we would simply refuse to do business with them.
Secondly, this business in NOT forcing their beliefs on its customers. It is the customers via the power of the state forcing its belief on the business.
Big Difference!!! The customers aren't forcing any "beliefs" by wanting to use the business No one cares if they "believe" in it at all They just want the same SERVICE offered to everyone else who pays the fees to the BUSINESS The owners ARE forcing it by demanding the customers share their beliefs in order to obtain services offered for SALE to the public, which is illegal. This is a circular argument. By using your rational, the customers ARE foring their belief on the buisness by demanding service...which up to a week ago (according to the article) was illegal. So, would you be content in them being forced to rent out the faciliy...and not perform the wedding?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
This is a circular argument. By using your rational, the customers ARE foring their belief on the buisness by demanding service...which up to a week ago (according to the article) was illegal.
So, would you be content in them being forced to rent out the faciliy...and not perform the wedding? They aren't forcing any "beliefs" They just want the SAME service provided to ALL other customers No one has to change what they believe. They just have to provide the service as they would to any other customer It's really not that complicated
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,260 |
If a business refused to serve gun owners, first, we would ask how did they know? Then we would simply refuse to do business with them.
Secondly, this business in NOT forcing their beliefs on its customers. It is the customers via the power of the state forcing its belief on the business.
Big Difference!!!
Well, that's dodging the point. A gay couple could conceal that fact, just as we conceal our guns. Will we all need to provide evidence of sex for a Christian wedding? How else can a poor minister be sure. Background noise, gentlemen...... If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
If a business refused to serve gun owners, first, we would ask how did they know? Then we would simply refuse to do business with them.
Secondly, this business in NOT forcing their beliefs on its customers. It is the customers via the power of the state forcing its belief on the business.
Big Difference!!!
Well, that's dodging the point. A gay couple could conceal that fact, just as we conceal our guns. Will we all need to provide evidence of sex for a Christian wedding? How else can a poor minister be sure. Background noise, gentlemen...... If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place. That is a bit absurb. The idea that you would suggest that one would marry someone of the same sex to conceal their sodomy is really beneath you. The issue is same sex marriage. That is not the Biblical pattern reguardless of your alleged higher standard for religious or "Christian" platitiudes. Marriage, by the way, is not a man-made tradition.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place. DITTOS!
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
This is a circular argument. By using your rational, the customers ARE foring their belief on the buisness by demanding service...which up to a week ago (according to the article) was illegal.
So, would you be content in them being forced to rent out the faciliy...and not perform the wedding? They aren't forcing any "beliefs" They just want the SAME service provided to ALL other customers No one has to change what they believe. They just have to provide the service as they would to any other customer It's really not that complicated No, it really is not that complicated. If one has a deeply held belief that something is morally wrong, they have a choice of wither or not they want to participate in it. Being in buisness does not require (in a free country) to give up those convictions to be in business. This is something that your customers will decide. They may decide that they do not want to do business with you and you loose customers. You may then go out of business. However, I doubt that this will be the case. Instead, the government will put them out of business by fines and imprisonment, unless they "conform" to the ditates government morality...not to the ditates of their own concious. Further, this is not the morality of the voters of Utah. It is the morality of appointed judges usurping the will of the people. Its that simple.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750 |
If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place. DITTOS! MARRIAGE IS NOT A MAN-MADE TRADITION!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place. DITTOS! MARRIAGE IS NOT A MAN-MADE TRADITION! If marriage is not a man-made tradition than who invented marriage and don't say God. We have no empirical evidence on what God thinks or doesn't think about marriage. The study of the tradition of marriage shows that marriage is a man-made or maybe I should say male-made tradition.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076 |
The study of the tradition of marriage shows that marriage is a man-made or maybe I should say male-made tradition.
Why would they have done that? edit: hint: Genesis 2:24. Not empirical, just a command from God.
Last edited by Spud; 10/28/14.
Hang on to your memories; they're better than the real thing ever was - Joe Sherlock
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
The study of the tradition of marriage shows that marriage is a man-made or maybe I should say male-made tradition.
Why would they have done that? To use women, who up until recently were chattel, for political purposes such as increasing a man's wealth, power, land, uniting clans, etc. Up until a hundred years or so if a woman with property and money married in Montana she lost all rights to her property and money as it became the man's property and money upon marriage. This is tough to understand unless one is willing to study ancient history and religions.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,076 |
Of course I knew what your answer would be. Not an expert on ancient history or religions, but do know what Genesis 2:24 says. That's fairly ancient.
Hang on to your memories; they're better than the real thing ever was - Joe Sherlock
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
If religious groups were half as concerned about knowing and serving God as they are about having their man - made traditions defended, the world would be a better place. DITTOS! MARRIAGE IS NOT A MAN-MADE TRADITION! Yeah, it is. It didn't exist in it's current form until the Judeo-Christian-Islam faith structure arose in the Middle East.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
534 members (1minute, 06hunter59, 204guy, 1941USMC, 1OntarioJim, 10gaugeman, 63 invisible),
2,411
guests, and
1,315
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,890
Posts18,518,307
Members74,020
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|