Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Who else admires this young woman?

You didn't answer the question. What did they get out of that final, nasty end that they could not have gotten otherwise? A few "days" more on the headstone, but what else?

As for drugs for pain, yep, you're right and "the opiate for the masses" is widely abused.

Only in your opinion 4 ager. The young lady is going to end her life, is that not suicide? She's going to do it early.
Death by taking pills to end your life, what's that?

I never said it wasn't technically suicide. I said it wasn't the same. Explain to me how the survivors/family will benefit from watching her waste away, in agony, losing everything that is "her" along the way until she's just (as T_O_M put it) "an animal that sort of looks like her, writhing in pain and making animal noises" by the end. What do they gain from that? What does she get that she couldn't otherwise have gotten?

Totally agree.

So, is shooting and killing an armed intruder holding your family at gunpoint, the same as shooting your wife as she's cooking dinner?

Apples and Oranges Explained.

Sometimes that isn't even an option. My bosses wife died of gall bladder cancer a few years ago. He describes her end as horrific and agonizing. I don't remember the details but he told me that hospice would not give her the pain medication that she needed, for fear that it would kill her. I seem to also recall that he said that it was very difficult to deliver the pain meds due to the damage that the chemo had done and her inability to swallow. I think that they were giving her methadone via suppositories.

"I couldn't agree more, but to make suicide out as an act of valor won't fly with me."

If this was a story about a terminally wounded US serviceman or a LEO,who knew he couldn't survive the wound,and decided to either stay behind to let his buddies escape or rush the bad guys to draw fire,you would not express admiration for their bravery or valor?
Just by definition,this would be suicide. Would you call them quitters?

Mom got 18 years with cancer, two year after nothing we can do for you
Dad got 2 years with cancer, 6 months after nothing we can do for you.
Aunt had cancer for 14 years, two after the nothing we can do for you.
What did we get, plenty of time to visit, plenty of time to talk about past history, a smile and hugs. They could and did handle all to the end of their lives.
They didn't fear pain as this young lady does. She not real tough so she's going to end it early so I don't have to go through any pain, the new generation.
What did we get, time and time is important.

My father had congestive heart failure, and hospice was called.

In his last days it wasn't pretty. He was in increasing agony as his organs shut down and died within his body.

Hospice was administering morphine. The nurse left for the night, and me and my brothers had to watch and listen as he moaned, screamed and was in misery, and was in a state of unconsciousness, that only the horrific pain was able to penetrate.

The nurse from hospice came in the morning.

I described what he went through the previous night, and told her to "give him enough to make the pain stop". She understood.

10 minutes later he passed.

+10,000

That's not the way it works 4ager. Ask the many cancer ridden people on this site.

That's something cause hospice dumps the morphine on you out here to stop pain.

Time is important, if you can make something of it. Time for the sake of time alone is nothing. I know many a person who has years logged, but not a life lived.

You seem stuck on "tough". Whatever that is to you, it seems the most important. To others, other things are more important, like quality time and experiences with friends and family, and saving friends, family, and those we love from unnecessary pain and suffering.

My grandfather was "alive", sort of, right up to the end. The last 4 months were just and only that; alive. His mind was gone, he didn't know who he was or who any of us were. Yeah, he was "tough", and he was "alive", but he was gone. Then, we got to sit there and watch as the pain wracked his body for the last few weeks. He was gone, but that body that remained suffered horribly. We all got something out of that time "together", I can assure you.

I wonder, is it suicide to stay and fight out an enemy when you know you'll die or have been wounded that MIGHT not be fatal if you leave? By definition, it would seem to be. Would those that do, then, not be "tough" enough to merit respect? Or, what about those that have a DNR or "no heroic measures" or similar medical directive? By definition, their restraint on rescuers would be suicide, because they might be saved (to some degree, even if in a vegetative state). Are they then cowards, too, and not "tough" enough?

You sure do have a mighty fine high horse upon which to sit whilst you judge, though. The view must be great up there.

It doesn't always work.

It depends entirely on the cancer. It can certainly be the way that it works. I've seen it firsthand.

When I went overseas as a contractor, there were a lot of contractors getting captured and slowly beheaded with a dull knife on film for their families to see.

I promised myself that no matter what, my family would never have to live with watching that happen to me.

Suppose I'm a cowardly quitter too.

Well pain takes being tough.
Let's go back to your grandad, guess he had something other then cancer. You think we should start putting down these people? Is that what your saying? Cause it was hard on you and your family, you guys suffered so let's stop our suffering. That's what it does sound like.

This girl moved to a state so she could what, take some pills and kill herself. Is that what this world is coming too?
Why, cause she doesn't want to suffer and fears to suffer.

You happen to be talking with one that has looked the grim reaper in the eyes.

Last Thanksgiving, after feeling very bad for over a year, I started coughing up blood. Not a little stripe of red, but after I was done, it looked like someone had gutted a deer... It gets your attention, rather well.

My initial doctor visit, and combined with 35 years of smoking, they told me of the distinct possibility of having advanced lung cancer, for which there is no cure.

I had those possibilities to consider. Seriously.

After I was admitted, and went through the whole plethora of what was "going on", they found that my main artery in my heart was 99.9% blocked, and did emergency catheterization on me, with a stent.

My heart was enlarged, and caused pressure in my chest to precipitate the coughing of blood. I had also experienced a total of 4 heart attacks until the procedure saved my life.

So, I was faced with thinking about the terminal effects of advanced lung cancer, and saw what a death by it meant, through stories of others.

I don't smoke any more. I eat healthier, and I am grateful that I didn't have to endure what death awaited me with lung cancer. And while I had already made up my mind not to pursue treatments that would only "prolong" my life for a few short, months, I had not made the decision to take my own life either.

I don't judge those that ought to have the freedom to make their own choices. Those choices are between them and God.

Sure it does. Puts you in a coma real easy.

He beat cancer. He had something else. I would have GLADLY ended his suffering, but for the laws in this state. I heard him many times over say that he hoped that if he ever got like that (and he did), that we'd be able to put him down and show him the same compassion we showed our animals. We couldn't do that, legally. What we did do, though, was work to make sure that he got all the morphine he could legally get as often and as quickly as he could receive it.

I have had other relatives die of cancer, as well as friends. I know what it can look like and what that brings.

Being "tough" and suffering through something can sometimes be just that, "tough". It can also be cowardly to do so, when the other option scares you more (death). I'd say that she's not scared of death nearly as much as it seems that some other folks are. She's going to die, very soon. She's accepted that fact. Other folks can't accept that themselves. So, who is "tough"?

I also see you refuse to address the other suicide option being discussed. Why is that? Is it because you'd have to admit that they might be "tough", even if their actions cause their own deaths? Hmmm... Being "tough" isn't so cut and dried, is it?