|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864 |
Not to mention that the hundreds of thousands of dollars that your family would spend to keep that heart pumping.
Keeping you around to suffer longer while they irrevocably destroy their own lives with endless debt to pass on to the next several generations.
That's not stewardship.
As I recall, my Savior chose to lay his life down for those He loved.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 18,345 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 18,345 Likes: 1 |
Lots of drugs to prevent pain in this country.
Sometimes that isn't even an option. My bosses wife died of gall bladder cancer a few years ago. He describes her end as horrific and agonizing. I don't remember the details but he told me that hospice would not give her the pain medication that she needed, for fear that it would kill her. I seem to also recall that he said that it was very difficult to deliver the pain meds due to the damage that the chemo had done and her inability to swallow. I think that they were giving her methadone via suppositories. That's something cause hospice dumps the morphine on you out here to stop pain. I don't recall the details and your experience with hospice is similar to mine. But, and I don't recall the details, I remember him saying that she wasn't on morphine and they couldn't give her enough methadone without killing her. He's a pretty pragmatic guy and was arguing that it didn't matter at that point. But they wouldn't do it. One thing different from her case vs. my family's experience was that she wasn't at home, but in a nursing home type facility.
Last edited by Steve; 10/29/14.
Carpe' Scrotum
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076 |
Her life, her choice. She isn't a hero or a coward. She is scared of suffering, and scared of the suffering that she will put her family through. She is just a girl who has been dealt a [bleep] hand, and that is about the end of it. I don't admire her, I pity her.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441 |
So what did you do? Carry a suicide pill under your shirt collar? Or if the Bad guys got close you were going to shoot yourself in the head? We are talking cancer here, not war zone.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
So what did you do? Carry a suicide pill under your shirt collar? Or if the Bad guys got close you were going to shoot yourself in the head? We are talking cancer here, not war zone. No, we're talking suicide. Unless you want to start differentiating one kind from another, at which point you lose.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Not to mention that the hundreds of thousands of dollars that your family would spend to keep that heart pumping.
Keeping you around to suffer longer while they irrevocably destroy their own lives with endless debt to pass on to the next several generations.
That's not stewardship.
As I recall, my Savior chose to lay his life down for those He loved. Nicely played.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,674 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,674 Likes: 21 |
Cancer IS a warzone.
But, whatever...
Like Pat, I have had my say in this.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Her life, her choice. She isn't a hero or a coward. She is scared of suffering, and scared of the suffering that she will put her family through. She is just a girl who has been dealt a [bleep] hand, and that is about the end of it. I don't admire her, I pity her. Agreed.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Cancer IS a warzone.
But, whatever...
Like Pat, I have had my say in this. I think I will join you and Pat in being done with this.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441 |
Good, I'm tired also.
One's things for sure you each get to make a decision to move to Oregon or not just to be on the safe side and have pills availible.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Armchair quarterbacking someone's life is as wrong as any other instance of speculation on circumstances that haven't been personally experienced. How do people die? How should they die? These are questions that only God can answer. If you don't believe in God, you have a different perspective. I will stick with a belief in God. There is nothing to tear at your heart, as to have a conversation with your daughter that is battling cancer and have her tell you she doesn't want to die. Being afraid of dying is different. For years we talked about everything, death wasn't something we talked about, but as the years progressed we understood it could shorten her life, substantially. She was a wonderful person, robbed of one of her most valuable possessions, time. There is nothing fair about cancer and to try and understand it from a human perspective is impossible. I believe in God and that His plan, though different than mine, is somehow better. We didn't talk about a convenient time for her to end her life, we stood by her and hoped for any miracle that would save her. It never happened and I sat in a hospital room, holding her hand as she took her last breath and cried. That has been almost 4 years ago, I still cry every day, there is nothing like the loss of a child. I see two different philosophies here. Some of us want to have absolute control and try to compartmentalize our lives for some satisfaction of control and organization. To those who do that, I am not condemning them, but I feel a stronger association with God and that it isn't up to us to make our lives so convenient that we forget who we are and why we are here. Cancer is a merciless killer and I can't understand it, I miss Paige every day... about ten years ago, i watched my mother die a slow death. Then 3months later it was my son's turn. A victim of downwinders, i.e. govt testing of nuclear bombs in nevada, and blowover radiation into arizona, and he died of cancer. That day i called up to prescott, sensed it was time and got there just in time to hold his hand and whisper in his ear, just let go, let it get done. About 30seconds later, he died. I watched him suffer with that cancer for months. He died about four days before the 4th of july, so you can imagine how our fourth's go these days. People shouldn't outlive their kids. Ronnie was my stepson. A couple of months before he died we were having this conversation, I never knew what to call him, son, friend, buddy, he was all of these. He gave me then the biggest compliment i ever got, and said i was always there for him, unlike his biological dad, so "dad" worked for him. I miss him to this day. Tomorrow I will be up where we always deer hunted, and i will do like I do every year, stop by the place he liked to camp and remember. Cancer is an evil thing, and I don't have good answers except i don't blame anyone that wants to end the pain. I remember that last elk hunt he tried to do. He did the walking and so on, but would be screaming at night from the pain. It isn't fun to be in a camp listening to your son cry out like that and not a damn thing you can do. I do know if he had chosen to take his own life, none of us, and I mean none, would have blamed him.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 10/29/14.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,498 Likes: 1 |
Lots of drugs to prevent pain in this country. The amount of powerful drugs required to control the pain that many of these unfortunate people have renders them unable to interact with their loved ones because it decreases their level of consciousness so much. It also suppresses their respirations to the degree that they are struggling to breathe...often they are just barely breathing...like a fish out of water. They become incontinent of urine, they become incontinent of stool. They can't even manage their own secretions in their mouth...much less eat or drink anything.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Lots of drugs to prevent pain in this country. The amount of powerful drugs required to control the pain that many of these unfortunate people have renders them unable to interact with their loved ones because it decreases their level of consciousness so much. It also suppresses their respirations to the degree that they are struggling to breathe...often they are just barely breathing...like a fish out of water. They become incontinent of urine, they become incontinent of stool. They can't even manage their own secretions in their mouth...much less eat or drink anything. absolutely the truth i remember using a cotton swab to put that stuff under my son's tongue.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441 |
Lots of drugs to prevent pain in this country. The amount of powerful drugs required to control the pain that many of these unfortunate people have renders them unable to interact with their loved ones because it decreases their level of consciousness so much. It also suppresses their respirations to the degree that they are struggling to breathe...often they are just barely breathing...like a fish out of water. They become incontinent of urine, they become incontinent of stool. They can't even manage their own secretions in their mouth...much less eat or drink anything. That's a true statement so out here they just give them a little more.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
I have no problem with them killing her if that's what they want to do. Let me see if I can understand this. You are against physician assisted suicide for terminally ill persons but you are all for murder of terminally ill persons. OOOOOOOkay.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
My wife was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. She didn't suffer to much at first. She didn't like it much when the doctor said "My plan is not to cure you My plan is to make you comfortable. " She spent 16 months wondering how much time she had left. The last few weeks were tough She was on morphine because bone cancer is very painful. One of the nurses at the hospice house explained to me that the actual cause of death is overdose of morphine which the family had to beg for. Nobody wants to watch a family member suffer. I don't judge anyone who wants to avoid that. whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076 |
Nope, you can't understand it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Shrapnel, I'm sorry for the loss of your daughter Paige. May she rest in peace and may you find comfort.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,558 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,558 Likes: 2 |
explained to me that the actual cause of death is overdose of morphine
I think that is very common
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
My wife died three years ago from stage 4 breast cancer. She was given morphine to deaden the pain. Her family kept begging the nurses to give her more so she wouldn't suffer. The nurses thought she would die soon after she quit eating and drinking but they were wrong.
I hope I never have to watch somebody that I love go through that again. whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
|
|
|
|
673 members (007FJ, 12344mag, 10gaugemag, 10Glocks, 160user, 10ring1, 78 invisible),
2,372
guests, and
1,261
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,718
Posts18,494,638
Members73,977
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|