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Campfire Ranger
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why should there be a distinction between a bb gun and an airsoft in the context of this shooting?
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Tracker
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Authorities said the BB gun resembled a semiautomatic handgun. An orange safety marker, intended to identify a toy gun, had been removed, police said. It wasn�t until after the weapon was recovered that investigators determined it was a BB gun.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
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Campfire Ranger
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If that is what we're talking about
but I'm focusing on the "A BB gun is a weapon" statement which would read as a justification for being shot for waving it around.
Last edited by KFWA; 11/24/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"Firearm." Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas. The term does not include any device designed or used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition.
The above is the legal definition of "firearm" as defined in our Crimes Code.
Using this definition, the BB gun, could fall under it. It may be a gray area depending on whether it's CO2 powered or spring powered, but being that "air" is a gas, it certainly covers any "air" gun, not specifically outlined and exempted
IMO it isn't that he had a bb gun, and "probably fake" isn't wnough for me to throw caution to the wind. The boy's action of disregarding the officer's orders to raise his hands, and instead reach for the gun in his waist band is the action that caused the shooting.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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why should there be a distinction between a bb gun and an airsoft in the context of this shooting? Maybe there shouldn't be. I've never heard of an Airsoft Gun killing anybody. Has one ever killed somebody? A BB gun is capable of killing somebody. I've taught my kids that BB guns aren't toys. They don't play with Airsoft Guns. IMO you already know the answer... This was found on a quick and cursory search. I can't vouch for it but it evidently illustrates that I'm not the only one that feels that BB guns aren't toys, at the very least. I'm quick to call foul when the cops mess up. They didn't mess up here. It's simply an unfortunate situation. My sympathies to the boy's oblivious parents.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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If that is what we're talking about
but I'm focusing on the "A BB gun is a weapon" statement which would read as a justification for being shot for waving it around. In an absolute sense it is justification for shooting somebody. You can't figure this out? In the first place, if somebody fears for their life and the fear is understandable, that is Justifiable Homicide in most locations across the land. In the second place, as illustrated, a BB gun is a weapon. So in an absolute sense, the Officer would be justified even if he knew the kid had a BB gun as opposed to a "real" gun. For at least the third time here, I don't think that is the case and I highly doubt the Officer would shoot a kid if he'd known the gun was a BB gun. What don't you understand about the law?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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"Firearm." Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas. The term does not include any device designed or used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition.
The above is the legal definition of "firearm" as defined in our Crimes Code.
Using this definition, the BB gun, could fall under it. It may be a gray area depending on whether it's CO2 powered or spring powered, but being that "air" is a gas, it certainly covers any "air" gun, not specifically outlined and exempted
IMO it isn't that he had a bb gun, and "probably fake" isn't wnough for me to throw caution to the wind. The boy's action of disregarding the officer's orders to raise his hands, and instead reach for the gun in his waist band is the action that caused the shooting. Yes.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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One point nobody has raised: The police get a call about a person with a gun. When they show up, they have no idea if the person they find is the one reported - or a different person with a gun.
If the cop had shown up expecting to find a kid with a toy and instead stumbles upon some gangbanger with a genuine .45, he could be a dead cop today.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This is not good. I can hear the race baiters ...
"Another innocent black youth executed by Law Enforcement"
If the officer is white then it will be another "undeniable" example of a racist white LEO profiling an "innocent black youth". If the officer is black it's still racial profiling.
That's what they'll say and it will stir up the "peaceful protestors".
The circumstances won't matter.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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One point nobody has raised: The police get a call about a person with a gun. When they show up, they have no idea if the person they find is the one reported - or a different person with a gun.
If the cop had shown up expecting to find a kid with a toy and instead stumbles upon some gangbanger with a genuine .45, he could be a dead cop today. It's also strange that some would want the Dispatcher fired for not relaying the erroneous info that it was a fake gun. It wasn't fake and again, even if it was it is as you say and also the person saying it was probably fake may have not known the difference between a fake and a real gun. Many AR's today, for instance, are bright orange and other colors and look nearly identical to kid's toys.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Here is a link with a video that shows the "toy" gun in an evidence box. If that's the one involved, and i'm the responding officer and you pull that on me, you're getting shot News video
Last edited by gitem_12; 11/24/14.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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This is not good. I can hear the race baiters ...
"Another innocent black youth executed by Law Enforcement"
If the officer is white then it will be another "undeniable" example of a racist white LEO profiling an "innocent black youth". If the officer is black it's still racial profiling.
That's what they'll say and it will stir up the "peaceful protestors".
The circumstances won't matter. Evidently that's already happening.
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah...that was my point. Only an idiot would second guess the shooting with the information provided, but there are plenty out there.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If that is what we're talking about
but I'm focusing on the "A BB gun is a weapon" statement which would read as a justification for being shot for waving it around. In an absolute sense it is justification for shooting somebody. You can't figure this out? In the first place, if somebody fears for their life and the fear is understandable, that is Justifiable Homicide in most locations across the land. In the second place, as illustrated, a BB gun is a weapon. So in an absolute sense, the Officer would be justified even if he knew the kid had a BB gun as opposed to a "real" gun. For at least the third time here, I don't think that is the case and I highly doubt the Officer would shoot a kid if he'd known the gun was a BB gun. What don't you understand about the law? I'm sorry, but if a cop feels he is justified in shooting a 12 year old kid for shooting a bb gun at him - knowing it was a bb gun - then turn in your badge, change the law and lets collectively hold our head in shame as a society. An airsoft gun or a bb gun or a Colt 1911 tucked into the waist band of a kid - OK I get that - you can't tell if its a real gun (real gun being - its shoots a damn bullet with gunpowder, not air) .I'm not happy about it because dammit, you give a 12 year old the benefit of the doubt, but I get it but to tell me that the law backs a cop shooting a kid *knowing* it was a bb gun because its defined as a weapon? screw that - that is taking the "I'm gonna get home tonight safe" bullshit too far.
Last edited by KFWA; 11/24/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Here is a link with a video that shows the "toy" gun in an evidence box. If that's the one involved, and i'm the responding officer and you pull that on me, you're getting shot I've seen two pics at least, in the two days I've read of this, of the actual BB gun. It looks a lot like the new USMC railgun that Colt is contracted to make and that Colt is already making for the civilian market. It also looks A LOT like a blued variant of the Taurus PT1911 railgun. It is maybe an inch longer. I certainly would not expect a responding officer to be able to tell the difference in a situation like the one depicted.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah...that was my point. Only an idiot would second guess the shooting with the information provided, but there are plenty out there. I agree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If that is what we're talking about
but I'm focusing on the "A BB gun is a weapon" statement which would read as a justification for being shot for waving it around. In an absolute sense it is justification for shooting somebody. You can't figure this out? In the first place, if somebody fears for their life and the fear is understandable, that is Justifiable Homicide in most locations across the land. In the second place, as illustrated, a BB gun is a weapon. So in an absolute sense, the Officer would be justified even if he knew the kid had a BB gun as opposed to a "real" gun. For at least the third time here, I don't think that is the case and I highly doubt the Officer would shoot a kid if he'd known the gun was a BB gun. What don't you understand about the law? I'm sorry, but if a cop feels he is justified in shooting a 12 year old kid for shooting a bb gun at him - knowing it was a bb gun - then turn in your badge, change the law and lets collectively hold our head in shame as a society. An airsoft gun or a bb gun or a Colt 1911 tucked into the waist band of a kid - OK I get that - you can't tell if its a real gun (real gun being - its shoots a damn bullet with gunpowder, not air) .I'm not happy about it because dammit, you give a 12 year old the benefit of the doubt, but I get it but to tell me that the law backs a cop shooting a kid *knowing* it was a bb gun because its defined as a weapon? screw that - that is taking the "I'm gonna get home tonight safe" bullshit too far. Without having the gun in hand, how am I supposed to KNOW it's a bb gun?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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KFWA, nowhere in the story - NOWHERE - is the assumption that the officer "knew" he was facing a 12-yo with a BB gun. You're making that assumption long after the event.
In real time, the cops get a call about a person waving a gun at people. They show up, and find a person who raises his shirt to expose a gun butt. At that instant in time, that is ALL the officer knows.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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If that is what we're talking about
but I'm focusing on the "A BB gun is a weapon" statement which would read as a justification for being shot for waving it around. In an absolute sense it is justification for shooting somebody. You can't figure this out? In the first place, if somebody fears for their life and the fear is understandable, that is Justifiable Homicide in most locations across the land. In the second place, as illustrated, a BB gun is a weapon. So in an absolute sense, the Officer would be justified even if he knew the kid had a BB gun as opposed to a "real" gun. For at least the third time here, I don't think that is the case and I highly doubt the Officer would shoot a kid if he'd known the gun was a BB gun. What don't you understand about the law? I'm sorry, but if a cop feels he is justified in shooting a 12 year old kid for shooting a bb gun at him - knowing it was a bb gun - then turn in your badge, change the law and lets collectively hold our head in shame as a society. An airsoft gun or a bb gun or a Colt 1911 tucked into the waist band of a kid - OK I get that - you can't tell if its a real gun (real gun being - its shoots a damn bullet with gunpowder, not air) .I'm not happy about it because dammit, you give a 12 year old the benefit of the doubt, but I get it but to tell me that the law backs a cop shooting a kid *knowing* it was a bb gun because its defined as a weapon? screw that - that is taking the "I'm gonna get home tonight safe" bullshit too far. If you get shot right with the right BB gun, you're going to the morgue. I guess that in some religions folks feel like the life of the criminal is more valuable than their own and it is the thing to do to just stand there and be shot and killed so the criminal can go home safe. So are you arguing that if the kid was pointing a .45 at you you shouldn't shoot because it's a kid? Or are you arguing that a BB gun won't kill you?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Many airsoft guns look very real, take the orange marker off and most would believe it was real. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tamir-rice-shooting-cleveland-police-under-investigation-n254716Police said officers responded to a report of a person waving a gun around at a playground and that Tamir was shot after he allegedly refused to put his hands up and reached in his waistband for what appeared to be a handgun. The handgun turned out to be an "airsoft" replica toy gun, which shoots pellets in a similar way that a BB gun does. Cleveland police said in a statement that an orange marking designed to make the toys distinguishable from real firearms had been removed. A man who called 911 told dispatchers the boy was on a swing set and pointing a pistol that was "probably fake" and scaring everyone � but officers weren't told the caller thought the gun might not be real, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association told The Associated Press.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
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